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arupa jhanas - Dhamma Wheel

arupa jhanas

General discussion of issues related to Theravada Meditation, e.g. meditation postures, developing a regular sitting practice, skillfully relating to difficulties and hindrances, etc.
alan...
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arupa jhanas

Postby alan... » Mon Apr 15, 2013 11:50 pm

okay so i've seen differing definitions.

the same is true for the first four jhanas but they are closer than the differences for arupa.

for the arupa some say they are one pointed, vast emptiness that involves nothing physical, and then on up the ladder. this sounds like it fits the suttas.

then i've seen some that say they are where you basically expand your awareness until it fills infinity and that imagining your awareness going further and further out of your room, then rivers and meadows and so on. this sounds like using your imagination which is the exact opposite of one pointed concentration.

what do you all think?

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manas
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Re: arupa jhanas

Postby manas » Tue Apr 16, 2013 1:08 am

Last edited by manas on Tue Apr 16, 2013 1:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
Then the Blessed One, picking up a tiny bit of dust with the tip of his fingernail, said to the monk, "There isn't even this much form...feeling...
perception...fabrications...consciousness that is constant, lasting, eternal, not subject to change, that will stay just as it is as long as eternity."

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polarbear101
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Re: arupa jhanas

Postby polarbear101 » Tue Apr 16, 2013 1:16 am

I don't think they're based on the imagination but rather, at least in the case of the perception of the infinitude of space, the loss of all sense of boundaries within the mind.

(Edited)

:anjali:
Last edited by polarbear101 on Tue Apr 16, 2013 9:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"I don't envision a single thing that, when developed & cultivated, leads to such great benefit as the mind. The mind, when developed & cultivated, leads to great benefit."

"I don't envision a single thing that, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about such suffering & stress as the mind. The mind, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about suffering & stress."

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daverupa
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Re: arupa jhanas

Postby daverupa » Tue Apr 16, 2013 1:24 am


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manas
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Re: arupa jhanas

Postby manas » Tue Apr 16, 2013 1:34 am

Then the Blessed One, picking up a tiny bit of dust with the tip of his fingernail, said to the monk, "There isn't even this much form...feeling...
perception...fabrications...consciousness that is constant, lasting, eternal, not subject to change, that will stay just as it is as long as eternity."

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Spiny Norman
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Re: arupa jhanas

Postby Spiny Norman » Tue Apr 16, 2013 8:42 am

"My religion is very simple - my religion is ice-cream."
Dairy Lama

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Spiny Norman
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Re: arupa jhanas

Postby Spiny Norman » Tue Apr 16, 2013 8:47 am

"My religion is very simple - my religion is ice-cream."
Dairy Lama

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reflection
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Re: arupa jhanas

Postby reflection » Tue Apr 16, 2013 10:09 am

I'm sure it is not this imaginative awareness you are speaking of, for numerous reason. One being, a lot of people can do this. Even people who don't have perfect virtue, or right view. Controversy about their validity aside, we are speaking about the last factor of the path here -or even beyond that. No way can it be something that easy.

Other than that, I don't know a lot about these states. But that knowledge is sufficient for me. Any intellectual knowledge would not help me. I'm confident enough in my training to know that if I continue this way, it'll take me there one day. Without knowing for sure what it will be like.

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daverupa
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Re: arupa jhanas

Postby daverupa » Tue Apr 16, 2013 11:19 am


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kirk5a
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Re: arupa jhanas

Postby kirk5a » Tue Apr 16, 2013 1:47 pm

"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230

santa100
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Re: arupa jhanas

Postby santa100 » Tue Apr 16, 2013 1:56 pm

One actually will need to master ArupaSamapatti to be called "Liberated in Both Ways"/UbhatoBhagaVimutta, one of the 7 types of noble individuals. ArupaSamapatti however is not required for every types. MN 70 describes all of those 7 ( http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html ) and AN 9.45 gives further explanation ( http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html )

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kirk5a
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Re: arupa jhanas

Postby kirk5a » Tue Apr 16, 2013 2:12 pm

"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230

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Spiny Norman
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Re: arupa jhanas

Postby Spiny Norman » Tue Apr 16, 2013 2:33 pm

"My religion is very simple - my religion is ice-cream."
Dairy Lama

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kirk5a
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Re: arupa jhanas

Postby kirk5a » Tue Apr 16, 2013 2:45 pm

"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230

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manas
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Re: arupa jhanas

Postby manas » Tue Apr 16, 2013 6:54 pm

Then the Blessed One, picking up a tiny bit of dust with the tip of his fingernail, said to the monk, "There isn't even this much form...feeling...
perception...fabrications...consciousness that is constant, lasting, eternal, not subject to change, that will stay just as it is as long as eternity."

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daverupa
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Re: arupa jhanas

Postby daverupa » Tue Apr 16, 2013 7:34 pm


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kirk5a
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Re: arupa jhanas

Postby kirk5a » Tue Apr 16, 2013 9:08 pm

"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230

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Spiny Norman
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Re: arupa jhanas

Postby Spiny Norman » Wed Apr 17, 2013 9:13 am

"My religion is very simple - my religion is ice-cream."
Dairy Lama

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daverupa
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Re: arupa jhanas

Postby daverupa » Wed Apr 17, 2013 1:20 pm


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kirk5a
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Re: arupa jhanas

Postby kirk5a » Wed Apr 17, 2013 1:37 pm

"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230


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