Urgently seeking jhana teachers in Burma and SE Asia

An open and inclusive investigation into Buddhism and spiritual cultivation

Urgently seeking jhana teachers in Burma and SE Asia

Postby Mr.SeanStewart » Sun Apr 14, 2013 7:24 am

Hey Dhama family, I am very urgently and desperately seeking a school that focuses on
developing jhanas before doing mindfulness practice.

- Also looking at a retreat that focuses on doing intense retreats idealy long term in a quiet center.

can you please tell me the names of the schools who do this, also where abouts they are located?

IM currently traveling in East asia so any where in asia would be perfect

Thank you kindly in advance

Sean


ps.
From my understanding so far Goenka's teaching does Samadi for 3.3 days on a 10 day course
Mahasi's organization focuses on rising and falling of stomach.
i know there are schools that develop jahna before doing mindfullness, which is what im seeking
User avatar
Mr.SeanStewart
 
Posts: 21
Joined: Sun Apr 14, 2013 7:19 am

Re: Developing Jhana before Vipassina (Urgently Seeking)

Postby Ben » Sun Apr 14, 2013 8:09 am

As a matter of interest...why?
"One cannot step twice into the same river, nor can one grasp any mortal substance in a stable condition, but it scatters and again gathers; it forms and dissolves, and approaches and departs."

- Heraclitus


Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR
Buddhist Life Stories of Australia

e: ben.dhammawheel@gmail.com
User avatar
Ben
Site Admin
 
Posts: 16145
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:49 am
Location: Land of the sleeping gods

Re: Developing Jhana before Vipassina (Urgently Seeking)

Postby Mr.SeanStewart » Sun Apr 14, 2013 8:35 am

Kindly i rather not start that discussion of the reason why at this point, as i know there are
different views and understanding on this.

I just like to know if there is such a school that develops jahana through natural breath (not visualization)
and then proceeds to teach Vipassina.

Any help would be great.
User avatar
Mr.SeanStewart
 
Posts: 21
Joined: Sun Apr 14, 2013 7:19 am

Re: Developing Jhana before Vipassina (Urgently Seeking)

Postby mikenz66 » Sun Apr 14, 2013 8:42 am

Hi Sean,

A number of teachers specifically develop Jhana, such as Pa Auk Sayadaw and his students, Ajahn Maha Bua's students, Ajahn Brahm, and so on. Did you have a particular location in mind?

:anjali:
Mike
User avatar
mikenz66
 
Posts: 10384
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 7:37 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Developing Jhana before Vipassina (Urgently Seeking)

Postby manas » Sun Apr 14, 2013 9:10 am

Mr.SeanStewart wrote:Hey Dhama family, I am very urgently and desperately seeking a school that focuses on
developing jhanas before doing mindfulness practice.

- Also looking at a retreat that focuses on doing intense retreats idealy long term in a quiet center.

can you please tell me the names of the schools who do this, also where abouts they are located?

IM currently traveling in East asia so any where in asia would be perfect

Thank you kindly in advance

Sean


ps.
From my understanding so far Goenka's teaching does Samadi for 3.3 days on a 10 day course
Mahasi's organization focuses on rising and falling of stomach.
i know there are schools that develop jahna before doing mindfullness, which is what im seeking


Hi Sean,

I support you in your quest, although I don't have any knowledge of meditation centres in Asia, sorry. (I've not as yet even been to Asia.) I just wanted to mention that, there is this notion in much of the Buddhist world that jhana and vipassana (is that what you were referring to when you mentioned 'mindfulness'?) are two different things, when actually they are more like two sides of a single coin, and are quite interconnected:

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... etool.html

Lastly, I might gently remind you that there's no jhana without mindfulness, I mean, jhana is a state in which there is greatly enhanced and strengthened mindfulness as I understand it, so maybe that is why some could misunderstand your original question.

I wish you well in your quest!

Metta :anjali:
User avatar
manas
 
Posts: 2129
Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2010 3:04 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Developing Jhana before Vipassina (Urgently Seeking)

Postby Ben » Sun Apr 14, 2013 9:40 am

Mr.SeanStewart wrote:Kindly i rather not start that discussion of the reason why at this point, as i know there are
different views and understanding on this.

I just like to know if there is such a school that develops jahana through natural breath (not visualization)
and then proceeds to teach Vipassina.

Any help would be great.


No worries, Sean.
When I was in Myanmar several years ago, a bhikkhu within my tradition went for a samatha retreat at a monastery in Southern Myanmar. Unfortunately I don't know the name of the monastery, whether the retreats are available to lay people or how to contact the bhikkhu who attended the retreat.
I hope some of our ordained members can chip in and provide you with some contacts.
All the best,

Ben
"One cannot step twice into the same river, nor can one grasp any mortal substance in a stable condition, but it scatters and again gathers; it forms and dissolves, and approaches and departs."

- Heraclitus


Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR
Buddhist Life Stories of Australia

e: ben.dhammawheel@gmail.com
User avatar
Ben
Site Admin
 
Posts: 16145
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:49 am
Location: Land of the sleeping gods

Re: Developing Jhana before Vipassina (Urgently Seeking)

Postby James the Giant » Sun Apr 14, 2013 11:19 am

Mr.SeanStewart wrote:- Also looking at a retreat that focuses on doing intense retreats idealy long term in a quiet center.

can you please tell me the names of the schools who do this, also where abouts they are located?

Pa-Auk Forest Monastery cultivate a solid base of jhana before moving on to vipassana, they are well known for that approach.
http://www.paaukforestmonastery.org

I have met a few people who have stayed there, and it sounds exactly like what you are looking for.
Burma is a little difficult to organise visas for... you need a letter from the abbot... and it takes 6 - 8 weeks... see the website for more details.
There are about 700 people there, perhaps 100 of them foreigners.
Perhaps they have some branch monasteries or centres in Thailand that would be easier to access.
Then,
saturated with joy,
you will put an end to suffering and stress.
SN 9.11
User avatar
James the Giant
 
Posts: 784
Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2009 6:41 am

Re: Developing Jhana before Vipassina (Urgently Seeking)

Postby mikenz66 » Sun Apr 14, 2013 12:57 pm

There is a Pa Auk centre in Malaysia, so that might be a good choice, since visas would not be an issue.

:anjali:
Mike
User avatar
mikenz66
 
Posts: 10384
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 7:37 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Developing Jhana before Vipassina (Urgently Seeking)

Postby Mr.SeanStewart » Sun Apr 14, 2013 2:38 pm

mikenz66 wrote:Hi Sean,

A number of teachers specifically develop Jhana, such as Pa Auk Sayadaw and his students, Ajahn Maha Bua's students, Ajahn Brahm, and so on. Did you have a particular location in mind?

:anjali:
Mike



Thanks Mike! So far from my research here is the list i have

1: Achaan onechai, who stays near udon Thani.
2: Thanissaro bhikkhu
3: Ajahn Chah & Achaan mahaboowa ( student achaan anan )
4. http://www.paaukforestmonastery.org/

And now you mention 2 more

1 Ajahn Maha Bua's students
2 Ajahn Brahm



im currently in bangkok thailand waiting for their new year to finish so i can apply for Meditation visa.

i prefer Burma for their meditation visa, or Nepal also is an option but more expensive for visa and have to go through india.

Currently have a sponsorship letter from chanmyay.org

thank you for all your help
Last edited by Mr.SeanStewart on Sun Apr 14, 2013 4:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
Mr.SeanStewart
 
Posts: 21
Joined: Sun Apr 14, 2013 7:19 am

Re: Developing Jhana before Vipassina (Urgently Seeking)

Postby Mr.SeanStewart » Sun Apr 14, 2013 2:50 pm

manas wrote:
Mr.SeanStewart wrote:Hey Dhama family, I am very urgently and desperately seeking a school that focuses on
developing jhanas before doing mindfulness practice.

- Also looking at a retreat that focuses on doing intense retreats idealy long term in a quiet center.

can you please tell me the names of the schools who do this, also where abouts they are located?

IM currently traveling in East asia so any where in asia would be perfect

Thank you kindly in advance

Sean


ps.
From my understanding so far Goenka's teaching does Samadi for 3.3 days on a 10 day course
Mahasi's organization focuses on rising and falling of stomach.
i know there are schools that develop jahna before doing mindfullness, which is what im seeking


Hi Sean,

I support you in your quest, although I don't have any knowledge of meditation centres in Asia, sorry. (I've not as yet even been to Asia.) I just wanted to mention that, there is this notion in much of the Buddhist world that jhana and vipassana (is that what you were referring to when you mentioned 'mindfulness'?) are two different things, when actually they are more like two sides of a single coin, and are quite interconnected:

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... etool.html

Lastly, I might gently remind you that there's no jhana without mindfulness, I mean, jhana is a state in which there is greatly enhanced and strengthened mindfulness as I understand it, so maybe that is why some could misunderstand your original question.

I wish you well in your quest!

Metta :anjali:


Thanks alot for your help and the link,
from my very limited experience (goenka vipassina 3 yrs, 5 retreats) i have learned that
the more concentrated my mind becomes through ananpana the better my practice gets
and with the 10 courese, right when i feel im reaching a new level of concentration
they start vipassina, and i never had a chance to seee where anapana alone will lead to
after 20-30-40 days.

So its part curiosity of what can happen, and part my own inner
feeling that this is a more skill ful path to me and my logic, that as a building needs to have a
solid foundation, so do i need a solid foundation of concentration which a) gives me motivation
to find peace/joy free from form (5 sesnes) and b) use this tool like a Microscope to practice
mindfullness/seeing-clearly/vipassina

from my research i see mixed reviews on this and every one seem to have their own valid reasons
and hoenstly i dont have the ability to read all the sutras to come up with my own conclusions
so the best i can do is to do what seems logical to me and follow the path of buddha.

he reached his jhana before discovering vipassina and reached the final goal, so me too would rather
reach jhana and then work towards vipassina and purfiy my mind, wost case senario i have increased
my concnetration which then improves all other areas of my life, and then i can move on to other practices

some may say this can develop attachment to Jhana state and become addicted, but i think just like all my other
addictions (drugs, sex, ect ect) this too should be seen through and transcended through personal experience.

Thanks again for listing, still love to hear others feed back on this. Cheers
User avatar
Mr.SeanStewart
 
Posts: 21
Joined: Sun Apr 14, 2013 7:19 am

Re: Developing Jhana before Vipassina (Urgently Seeking)

Postby Mr.SeanStewart » Sun Apr 14, 2013 3:12 pm

James the Giant wrote:
Mr.SeanStewart wrote:- Also looking at a retreat that focuses on doing intense retreats idealy long term in a quiet center.

can you please tell me the names of the schools who do this, also where abouts they are located?

Pa-Auk Forest Monastery cultivate a solid base of jhana before moving on to vipassana, they are well known for that approach.
http://www.paaukforestmonastery.org

I have met a few people who have stayed there, and it sounds exactly like what you are looking for.
Burma is a little difficult to organise visas for... you need a letter from the abbot... and it takes 6 - 8 weeks... see the website for more details.
There are about 700 people there, perhaps 100 of them foreigners.
Perhaps they have some branch monasteries or centres in Thailand that would be easier to access.


Thanks James,

Im going to try calling them as i can not wait 6 weeks i only have few days in bangkok
700 students is alot of students, wonder how intimate the teacher/student relationships
can get with that many people.
User avatar
Mr.SeanStewart
 
Posts: 21
Joined: Sun Apr 14, 2013 7:19 am

Re: Developing Jhana before Vipassina (Urgently Seeking)

Postby daverupa » Sun Apr 14, 2013 5:13 pm

Vipassana and samatha are developed in tandem; should one or another achieve preeminence, the imbalance is to be redressed, but not chosen - the problem will be with personal (i.e. habitual) emphases. I think it's a disservice to suggest that one or another is to be developed first on purpose, even in reference to such differing temperaments.

Satipatthana properly develops both, as two hands wash each other even when you pay attention to only one hand; anapanasati is a sequel which brings the awakening factors to fulfillment by development. Find the proper method in your own case by diligent satisampajanna - do not neglect this daily practice in order to favor formal seated efforts, which are appropriately seen as efforts to compose jhana on the basis of satipatthana - again, with vipassana and samatha in tandem.

Putting vipassana and jhana in contrast seems to be based on a misunderstanding.

:heart:
    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.
- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
User avatar
daverupa
 
Posts: 4177
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 6:58 pm

Re: Developing Jhana before Vipassina (Urgently Seeking)

Postby mikenz66 » Sun Apr 14, 2013 7:26 pm

daverupa wrote:Putting vipassana and jhana in contrast seems to be based on a misunderstanding.

I don't think anyone putting them in contrast. Nevertheless, many reputable teachers, the Theravada tradition, and many suttas (all of those "gradual training" suttas, for example:"With his mind thus concentrated, purified, and bright, unblemished, free from defects, pliant, malleable, steady, and attained to imperturbability, the monk directs and inclines it to the knowledge of the ending of the mental fermentations. ...") place development of jhana before the development of the crucial insights.

In any case, such questioning is irrelevant to the OP, who has clearly explained that he wishes to train with reputable Theravada teachers who emphasise development of jhana.

Sean mentions Chanmyay Sayadaw. He might be aware of the statement from him that I quoted more fully here:
viewtopic.php?f=43&t=8854&start=20#p212808
Chanmyay Sayadaw wrote:The first type of Vipassana meditation or Insight Meditation is practised by those who have ample time to devote to their meditation. They have to spend maybe three or four months on Samatha meditation. And when they are satisfied with their attainment of jhana concentration they proceed with Vipassana meditation.

It may be that he can find the instruction he seeks at that centre.

:anjali:
Mike
User avatar
mikenz66
 
Posts: 10384
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 7:37 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Developing Jhana before Vipassina (Urgently Seeking)

Postby daverupa » Sun Apr 14, 2013 11:25 pm

mikenz66 wrote:
daverupa wrote:Putting vipassana and jhana in contrast seems to be based on a misunderstanding.

I don't think anyone putting them in contrast... development of jhana before the development of the crucial insights.


Sure; but those crucial insights follow vipassana-samatha. The thread title sets up an opposition which doesn't exist: samatha-vipassana are paired qualities whose development altogether precedes jhana.

Go ahead and find teachers who are doing jhana, but the OP basically asks to learn them prior to satipatthana, which is altogether backwards, expressed wish or not.

:anjali:
    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.
- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
User avatar
daverupa
 
Posts: 4177
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 6:58 pm

Re: Developing Jhana before Vipassina (Urgently Seeking)

Postby Ben » Mon Apr 15, 2013 12:48 am

I think the OP has asked for contacts regarding the teaching of samatha.
Anything other than the provision of places and names is off-topic.
kind regards,

Ben
"One cannot step twice into the same river, nor can one grasp any mortal substance in a stable condition, but it scatters and again gathers; it forms and dissolves, and approaches and departs."

- Heraclitus


Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR
Buddhist Life Stories of Australia

e: ben.dhammawheel@gmail.com
User avatar
Ben
Site Admin
 
Posts: 16145
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:49 am
Location: Land of the sleeping gods

Re: Developing Jhana before Vipassina (Urgently Seeking)

Postby Mr.SeanStewart » Mon Apr 15, 2013 5:34 am

mikenz66 wrote:
daverupa wrote:Putting vipassana and jhana in contrast seems to be based on a misunderstanding.

I don't think anyone putting them in contrast. Nevertheless, many reputable teachers, the Theravada tradition, and many suttas (all of those "gradual training" suttas, for example:"With his mind thus concentrated, purified, and bright, unblemished, free from defects, pliant, malleable, steady, and attained to imperturbability, the monk directs and inclines it to the knowledge of the ending of the mental fermentations. ...") place development of jhana before the development of the crucial insights.

In any case, such questioning is irrelevant to the OP, who has clearly explained that he wishes to train with reputable Theravada teachers who emphasise development of jhana.

Sean mentions Chanmyay Sayadaw. He might be aware of the statement from him that I quoted more fully here:
viewtopic.php?f=43&t=8854&start=20#p212808
Chanmyay Sayadaw wrote:The first type of Vipassana meditation or Insight Meditation is practised by those who have ample time to devote to their meditation. They have to spend maybe three or four months on Samatha meditation. And when they are satisfied with their attainment of jhana concentration they proceed with Vipassana meditation.

It may be that he can find the instruction he seeks at that centre.

:anjali:
Mike


Hey Mike thanks alot this is EXACTLY what im looking for.

The only challenge now is where do i find a retreat that follows this advice?

also if you happen to know where i can find a Ajahn Chah retreat center in bangkok/burma area?
User avatar
Mr.SeanStewart
 
Posts: 21
Joined: Sun Apr 14, 2013 7:19 am

Re: Developing Jhana before Vipassina (Urgently Seeking)

Postby Dmytro » Mon Apr 15, 2013 6:18 am

Hi Sean,

I would sincerely recommend Samatha Trust

http://samatha.org/

Best wishes, Dmytro
User avatar
Dmytro
 
Posts: 1161
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 7:24 pm
Location: Kyiv, Ukraine

Re: Developing Jhana before Vipassina (Urgently Seeking)

Postby Mr.SeanStewart » Tue Apr 16, 2013 7:33 am

Thank you Dymtro, is there any location i Thialand/Burma for this?



Dmytro wrote:Hi Sean,

I would sincerely recommend Samatha Trust

http://samatha.org/

Best wishes, Dmytro
User avatar
Mr.SeanStewart
 
Posts: 21
Joined: Sun Apr 14, 2013 7:19 am

Re: Developing Jhana before Vipassina (Urgently Seeking)

Postby Ben » Tue Apr 16, 2013 7:49 am

Mr.SeanStewart wrote:Thank you Dymtro, is there any location i Thialand/Burma for this?



Dmytro wrote:Hi Sean,

I would sincerely recommend Samatha Trust

http://samatha.org/

Best wishes, Dmytro


No, apparently not.
"One cannot step twice into the same river, nor can one grasp any mortal substance in a stable condition, but it scatters and again gathers; it forms and dissolves, and approaches and departs."

- Heraclitus


Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR
Buddhist Life Stories of Australia

e: ben.dhammawheel@gmail.com
User avatar
Ben
Site Admin
 
Posts: 16145
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:49 am
Location: Land of the sleeping gods

Jhana Teachers In Burma?

Postby Mr.SeanStewart » Thu Apr 18, 2013 2:22 pm

Dear Dhama Framily,

on my search to discovering my teacher iv come up with the following 3 teachers and schools who i know
for sure focus on developing Jhana before vipassina.

1 Ajahn Brahm ~ Australia Monestry
2 Thanissaro bhikkhu - Sandiego CA
3 Pa-Auk School - Burma

My question is do you know any other teacher who is taking on students who is in Burma or Thailand
with name and location would be great.



Thanks so much

Sean

PS. Since i am looking to work directly with a teacher Option 3 Pa-Auk is less favorable,
i heard many people there are left on their own.

PSS. I heard Ajan Chah was focusing on jhana before vipassina but today i visited one of his
monesteries (Wat Pah Nanachat) in Udon Thailand, and i talked to one of the monks
and he didnt know any thing about Jhana.
User avatar
Mr.SeanStewart
 
Posts: 21
Joined: Sun Apr 14, 2013 7:19 am

Next

Return to Open Dhamma

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests