Teachings of Self Damaging Dhamma?

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Teachings of Self Damaging Dhamma?

Postby clw_uk » Wed Jul 15, 2009 7:58 pm

Greetings


In my eternal on going debate that im currently having :jumping: i was met with an article from a memeber of the Sangha who talks quite openly about a true Self (i wont say the name of what tradition)


The guy then basically stuck to this and, from what i can tell, it allowed him to cling more tightly at his Atman concept since he felt it was justified by, what he sees as, wise Buddhist monks


Do we think that Sangha memebers who teach in these terms actually do damage to Dhamma and to others wanting to understand Dhamma, since it seems to let people cling to some sense of Self


metta
“ Your mind is likewise blocked. But the right road awaits you still. Cast out your doubts, your fears and your desires, let go of grief and of hope as well, for where these rule , then the mind is their subject." Boetius
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Re: Teachings of Self Damaging Dhamma?

Postby tiltbillings » Wed Jul 15, 2009 8:10 pm

clw_uk wrote:Greetings


In my eternal on going debate that im currently having :jumping: i was met with an article from a memeber of the Sangha who talks quite openly about a true Self (i wont say the name of what tradition)


There is the famous and aptly named Vacchagota who has been on any number of forums supposedly arguing for a self from the Pali suttas.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: Teachings of Self Damaging Dhamma?

Postby Cittasanto » Wed Jul 15, 2009 8:20 pm

I would be interested to see this article.
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
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Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."
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Re: Teachings of Self Damaging Dhamma?

Postby David N. Snyder » Wed Jul 15, 2009 8:57 pm

clw_uk wrote:Do we think that Sangha memebers who teach in these terms actually do damage to Dhamma and to others wanting to understand Dhamma, since it seems to let people cling to some sense of Self


Unfortunately I have heard and read some teachings from some teachers who talk of this "true self." I think it is a distortion of the teachings and does damage. Their motivation may be sincere, a sort of 'skilful means' until beginners are ready to learn about anatta. But more likely the teacher cannot or is not willing to accept/understand anatta and wants to fit their wish into the Dhamma.

In my opinion, the damage probably outweighs any 'skilful means' that might be in play.
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Re: Teachings of Self Damaging Dhamma?

Postby kc2dpt » Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm

clw_uk wrote:Do we think that Sangha memebers who teach in these terms actually do damage to Dhamma and to others wanting to understand Dhamma, since it seems to let people cling to some sense of Self[?]

I'll make it even simpler: people who teach in these terms do not teach Buddhism. When one teaches non-Buddhism as Buddhism they do damage to themselves and others.
- Peter

Be heedful and you will accomplish your goal.
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Re: Teachings of Self Damaging Dhamma?

Postby Ben » Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:02 pm

Peter wrote:
clw_uk wrote:Do we think that Sangha memebers who teach in these terms actually do damage to Dhamma and to others wanting to understand Dhamma, since it seems to let people cling to some sense of Self[?]

I'll make it even simpler: people who teach in these terms do not teach Buddhism. When one teaches non-Buddhism as Buddhism they do damage to themselves and others.


Well said!
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Re: Teachings of Self Damaging Dhamma?

Postby nomad » Thu Jul 16, 2009 1:46 am

I can see why people in today’s world would be so quick to cling onto a sense of self. Despite the knowledge given in scripture, it can still be frightening for some people to give up their egocentric views when many have been conditioned since birth to believe that they are a separate entity that is the center of the universe. I agree, however, that it is damaging as it goes against the basic tenets of Buddhism. Do you have a link to the article?

~nomad

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Re: Teachings of Self Damaging Dhamma?

Postby kc2dpt » Thu Jul 16, 2009 1:58 pm

nomad wrote:I can see why people in today’s world would be so quick to cling onto a sense of self.

Not just people in today's world, but people in any world. The Buddha teaches that the most fundamental delusion underlying all the suffering in the world is the delusion "I am".
- Peter

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Re: Teachings of Self Damaging Dhamma?

Postby nomad » Thu Jul 16, 2009 4:02 pm

Peter wrote:
nomad wrote:I can see why people in today’s world would be so quick to cling onto a sense of self.

Not just people in today's world, but people in any world. The Buddha teaches that the most fundamental delusion underlying all the suffering in the world is the delusion "I am".


Agreed. Personally, I think it's one of the most difficult aspects of the Buddha's teachings.

~nomad

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"I am because we are." -Xhosa Tribal Saying
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