the great Nibbana = annihilation, eternal, or something else thread

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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DAWN
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Re: Nibbana = universal consciousness?

Postby DAWN » Sun Aug 26, 2012 8:29 am

With pleasure :anjali:
Sabbe dhamma anatta
We are not concurents...

Scott1989
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Re: Nibbana = universal consciousness?

Postby Scott1989 » Sun Aug 26, 2012 3:38 pm

The Buddha would probably say that none of this is relevant. Trying to describe your true nature is identifying with an object (you feel that you are the one describing the thing that cannot be described instead of being the 'thing' that cannot be described) and stands in the way of liberation.

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DAWN
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Re: Nibbana = universal consciousness?

Postby DAWN » Sun Aug 26, 2012 6:50 pm

It's true..
If we wanna talk about The Dhamma, we shuld stay silent
So we can talk just about The Path

Anyway, we know that every living being seek for 3 things :
- Liberty (peoples want to be rich, and powerfull to have and do every that they want)
- Stability/Savety (peoples want to have good friends, good family, good job, to fill him self in security)
- Peace (peoples don't want to be disturbed, they want some calm, to be in peace)

and the same seeking for the animals, and I am sure for the rest of living creatures to.

The problem is that all this qualities are seeked in phenomenal world, that havn't Liberty, havn't Stability and havn't Peace.

Every living being are seeking for Nibbana,
inconciuosly they are all buddhists,
but who dont met The Dhamma

So I would like just to say that anyway we will stay on the Path, but one day, when we will wake up under a tree, where we spend our night, we must to be awere to be able to understand if before to go sleep we went from left to the right, or from right to the left, and to understand that we must be awere about the leaf of the tree, to be concentrate on dhammas, for understand where the wind lead us, where he lead everybody... But in this world, in society, we have a lot of turbulances that can deceive us, so a wise one go forth, out of the zone of turbulance, now he can take his Path, now he can direct his boath on the beach, without worring about a storm, without worring to break his mast of believe, the wise one will reach the ground in this very life.
Sabbe dhamma anatta
We are not concurents...

PeterHarvey
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Re: Nibbana = universal consciousness?

Postby PeterHarvey » Fri Oct 05, 2012 4:14 pm


Sylvester
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Re: Nibbana = universal consciousness?

Postby Sylvester » Tue Oct 09, 2012 4:19 am

Dear Prof Harvey

Pls accept my apologies for any distress that my misreporting may have caused you.

:anjali:

xabir
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Re: Nibbana = universal consciousness?

Postby xabir » Thu Jan 03, 2013 4:53 pm


Nyana
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Re: Nibbana = universal consciousness?

Postby Nyana » Thu Jan 10, 2013 11:35 am


mogg
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Re: Nibbana = universal consciousness?

Postby mogg » Wed Apr 24, 2013 7:57 am

The title of this thread is entirely incorrect.

Ven. Nyantiloka's rendition of MN 109 (inc. notes):

And what, in brief, are the Five Groups of Existence? They are
corporeality, feeling, perception, (mental) formations, and
consciousness.
All corporeal phenomena, whether past, present or future, M. 109
one’s own or external, gross or subtle, lofty or low, far or near,
all belong to the Group of Corporeality; all feelings belong to
the Group of Feeling; all perceptions belong to the Group of
Perception; all mental formations belong to the Group of Formations;
all consciousness belongs to the Group of
Consciousness.

(These Groups are a fivefold classification in which the Buddha
has summed up all the physical and mental phenomena of existence,
and in particular, those which appear to the ignorant man
as his ego or personality. Hence birth, decay, death, etc. are also
included in these five Groups which actually comprise the whole
world.
)

There is no consciousness that is exempt from the tilakkhana. This nibbana = 'universal consciousness' idea is wrong view.

MN 38: Hence I say: the arising of consciousness is dependent upon
conditions; and without these conditions, no consciousness
arises.


I also recommend reading SN 23.94. Categorical on this issue.

Nyana
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Re: Nibbana = universal consciousness?

Postby Nyana » Wed Apr 24, 2013 4:25 pm


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Lazy_eye
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Re: Nibbana = universal consciousness?

Postby Lazy_eye » Wed Apr 24, 2013 5:38 pm

It looks like it's been a very interesting discussion, but at this point it would be bewildering to try and trace the argument back to its source. Wondering if someone could quickly clarify:

-- is it that some Mahayana schools posit a "permanent vinnana lighting the cosmos" aka universal consciousness, and Theravada doesn't teach such a thing/

-- Is it that no Buddhist school teaches such a thing, but some variants of Mahayana present nirvana in "positive" terms which seem to suggest it?

-- is it that Thanissario Bhikkhu seems at times to suggest such a concept?

-- None of the above/something else?

Just to make an uninformed layman's observation, what I see is that Mahayana sutras such as the Avatamsaka do seem to present Buddhahood as a sort of abiding transcendent consciousness -- but I've been advised that this is illusory and only appears that way from the standpoint of beings in samsara.

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Re: Nibbana = universal consciousness?

Postby Nyana » Wed Apr 24, 2013 6:44 pm


mogg
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Re: Nibbana = universal consciousness?

Postby mogg » Thu Apr 25, 2013 3:01 am


Nyana
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Re: Nibbana = universal consciousness?

Postby Nyana » Thu Apr 25, 2013 10:53 am


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Dan74
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Re: Nibbana = universal consciousness?

Postby Dan74 » Thu Apr 25, 2013 11:11 am

_/|\_

mogg
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Re: Nibbana = universal consciousness?

Postby mogg » Thu Apr 25, 2013 11:20 am


Nyana
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Re: Nibbana = universal consciousness?

Postby Nyana » Thu Apr 25, 2013 12:34 pm


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Re: Nibbana = universal consciousness?

Postby Lazy_eye » Thu Apr 25, 2013 1:12 pm


alan
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Re: Nibbana = universal consciousness?

Postby alan » Thu Apr 25, 2013 3:53 pm

"Universal consciousness" is a western idea. We like the way it feels. But it has nothing to do with Buddhism!

Maybe the problem is books that attempt to bridge the gap and explain Buddhist or other ideas to the general public. They often pick words and concepts familiar to the reader. Unfortunately, this over-simplification is often taken as the absolute truth by those not thoughtful enough to enquire further.

Multiply that by a million books, and we have a lot of people with good intentions but poor understanding.

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Re: Nibbana = universal consciousness?

Postby EmptyShadow » Fri Apr 26, 2013 3:22 am


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Re: Nibbana = universal consciousness?

Postby BlackBird » Fri Apr 26, 2013 3:28 am

I have an inkling that any response a Theravadin might make to concepts of Mahayanist eternalism would be thwarted in their minds with the catch all concept they have of emptiness. 'You can say whatever you like, but that's still a relative truth and is ultimately empty, as is everything. :sage: '

But I only have my own experience of days sitting in my kuti talking to a former Vajrayana monk in Sri Lanka to go on, and he was some what of an eccentric, so I have no clue whether he respresents the general point of view.
"For a disciple who has conviction in the Teacher's message & lives to penetrate it, what accords with the Dhamma is this:
'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." -


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