Weirdest experience so far.

Discussion of Samatha bhavana and Jhana bhavana.

Weirdest experience so far.

Postby K.Dhamma » Sun Apr 14, 2013 2:08 am

So, lately I have been having this experience that first...I know is not Jhana. But I would just like some peoples ideas on what it is. It has happened during meditation, but oddly enough also during a couple of job interviews...(i know sounds weird).

So, I start focusing in breath during meditation and after about 20 minutes or so I get this "buzzing" feeling in my head and I suddenly feel like my body is leaning to the right. I have opened my eyes during meditation and the feeling remains and I am not leaning. If I focus on the feeling or on my breath I can make it stronger but it definitely has a threshold where it kind of stops getting stronger. When I do it during meditation it will last for about 20-30 minutes if I don't get too eager to "try" to make it stay and just stick with the breath object. It does feel somewhat pleasurable and it definitely is interesting, but I am just wondering what is going on. I do seem to have a little bit more awareness on the object during this time than normal. It feels like I can just "grab" the breath and sit at the point of my nose with very very little to no effort at all.

The only thing I can say that I know will bring it on is if I go to short and shallow breathing for an extended period of time and if I focus on the object. Please I just need some help on what this is, whether I am being sidetracked and this is something I need to move past, or if it is something like access concentration. Not looking for exact answers, but if someone has had this experience and could help me it would be very much appreciated.

The only other time this has happened is during a job interview. Same feeling, but it seemed to come on without warning. My head starts to swim, then there is a buzz, and then "whoosh" I am looking at the person but I feel as if I am in the air and leaning to the right. This has been going on for quite a while now. I would say about 3 years ago even before I started meditating.

Thanks if advance! Much metta to all!
"Remember you dont meditate to get anything, but to get rid of things. We do it, not with desire, but with letting go. If you want anything, you wont find it." - Ajahn Chah
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Re: Weirdest experience so far.

Postby Timpan » Sun Apr 14, 2013 5:49 am

This sounds to me like a higher concentration , the buzz i the head i have felt in the third jahana , and what you explains about leaning to the right sounds like the second jhana, i sometimes feel that i am sitting backwards or turned in another direction. If i would have asked my master about this he would probably say something like just watch it and just let it go :tongue:
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Re: Weirdest experience so far.

Postby K.Dhamma » Sun Apr 14, 2013 6:04 am

heehee. well I would totally agree with you but the only problem is that I do feel pain i my body and I can be aware of sound around me if I choose so. not only that, but I can pull myself out of it at any time. *shrug*
"Remember you dont meditate to get anything, but to get rid of things. We do it, not with desire, but with letting go. If you want anything, you wont find it." - Ajahn Chah
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Re: Weirdest experience so far.

Postby James the Giant » Sun Apr 14, 2013 6:46 am

K.Dhamma wrote:heehee. well I would totally agree with you but the only problem is that I do feel pain i my body and I can be aware of sound around me if I choose so. not only that, but I can pull myself out of it at any time. *shrug*

Good, I am glad to hear you have your head screwed on properly... too many people delude themselves by having some weird experience and then they find a description on the internet, and say "OH! That must be the third jhana!!", when in reality it is nothing near it.

I hope someone can give you an answer to your question, but I cannot sorry.
It is interesting that elements of your experience sometimes happen in non-meditation settings.
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Re: Weirdest experience so far.

Postby Coyote » Sun Apr 14, 2013 8:22 am

I have had similar feelings in meditation - a very light feeling, sometimes a buzz, and a feeling of leaning back or forward. I have read some saying it is Piti, but I am not convinced. I think the way to tell whether it is constructive is to investigate it and see how it relates to various path factors - awareness, energy, clear comprehension. If it doesn't support them then just note it as a passing feeling. It's nothing special and can become a distraction - experience hunting. Even if it is supportive, it will not always come at will. So a) make the most use of it when it arises. b) learn from it, what makes it arise ect.
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Re: Weirdest experience so far.

Postby Spiny Norman » Sun Apr 14, 2013 9:39 am

K.Dhamma wrote: This has been going on for quite a while now. I would say about 3 years ago even before I started meditating.


Have you had any medical advice on this?
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Re: Weirdest experience so far.

Postby Aloka » Sun Apr 14, 2013 11:03 am

porpoise wrote:
K.Dhamma wrote: This has been going on for quite a while now. I would say about 3 years ago even before I started meditating.


Have you had any medical advice on this?


Have you been checked for Tinnitus, or for Menieres Disease - for which some of the symptoms are balance problems and fluctuating Tinnitus ?

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Re: Weirdest experience so far.

Postby Feathers » Sun Apr 14, 2013 12:47 pm

My first thought as soon as you said it came especially with shallow breathing was whether maybe you were making yourself slightly faint - I've never fainted but the few times I've come close I've had a ringing in my ears and dizziness.
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Re: Weirdest experience so far.

Postby K.Dhamma » Sun Apr 14, 2013 3:38 pm

Well here is the thing. The leaning feeling is probably (note that probably) coming from an inner ear problem I have. But here is the thing; other than these 2 situations I don't have this leaning feeling. Only during meditation and during interviews. But I guess the more accurate thing would be to ask; What is causing the feeling? What coyote said might be something. Doctors have told me it is "benign vertigo." But I don't get vertigo from movement, so I don't know how they came up with that idea.

Either way. The buzzing is pleasureable to some extent and the feeling does make it a little easier to sit(although I can still feel my body, it's not quite a pronounced).

@James the Giant - Yeah, I mean it feels good. But it is in no way "blissful." I don't really go from whatever mood or mind state I am in, into a happy/joyful/blissful state. If I had to describe it, it would be like maybe the feeling after you have been laying on the ground for a while and you sit up really fast and you get that swollen head feeling. But without the nausea or dizziness. On a scale of pleasure from 1-10 it would be maybe a 5 or 6 just because it pulls some of my attention away from my body. However, it is not a "satisfying" feeling or anything like that.
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Re: Weirdest experience so far.

Postby Heaviside » Wed Apr 24, 2013 10:32 pm

I sometimes have these symptoms. They seem to occur when I try to relax my forehead muscles. It is not easy to determine whether the feeling is tension or relaxation.

They occur when I think of my forehead as getting heavy and "sagging" under gravity. (Just a metaphor!) When I do this, I often begin to "see" something like a science finction idea of whirling galactic space or somesuch. Sometimes this segues into colored lights: blue or, less often, white. A bit later these "visions" go away and I feel and hear the same buzz you describe. And, less often, the sidewise tilting feeling.

I think the after effect is a heightened sense of relaxation---even after the meditation session is over.
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Re: Weirdest experience so far.

Postby Kim OHara » Thu Apr 25, 2013 3:46 am

K.Dhamma wrote:The only other time this has happened is during a job interview. Same feeling, but it seemed to come on without warning. My head starts to swim, then there is a buzz, and then "whoosh" I am looking at the person but I feel as if I am in the air and leaning to the right. This has been going on for quite a while now. I would say about 3 years ago even before I started meditating.

Thanks if advance! Much metta to all!

I have had similar experiences, particularly the "looking at the person but I feel as if I am in the air" bit, apparently unrelated to meditation. It feels quite weird - as though my point-of-view is about a third of a metre above where my eyes are. It is a bit disorienting and impairs my balance (which we normally check-and-correct using our eyesight, of course) so I don't particularly like it or want it to stay, and it goes away after a few minutes or (at most) half an hour.
It seems to occur more often when I am ill or stressed or both, but it has only occurred maybe once or twice a year (for thirty years or so that I can remember :tongue: ) so (1) it doesn't seem harmful and (2) I haven't bothered looking into it any further. New-agey explanations would probably talk about my aetheric body moving outside my physical body, or some such thing, but I will leave them to the :alien: people who like such stuff.

:popcorn:
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Re: Weirdest experience so far.

Postby K.Dhamma » Thu Apr 25, 2013 12:45 pm

Yeah, as interesting as it is. At times it can be fun to play with, like during some of my meditations. But other times, like during interviews, it can be quite a difficult thing to deal with. I personally think it's nothing more than maybe a trance or inner ear problem possibly. At least for me.
"Remember you dont meditate to get anything, but to get rid of things. We do it, not with desire, but with letting go. If you want anything, you wont find it." - Ajahn Chah
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Re: Weirdest experience so far.

Postby Toph » Mon Apr 29, 2013 1:32 pm

I get similar, my sense of self in space I guess goes off kilter, and feel like I'm leaning but really am sitting straight. It usually takes about 20min to loose some focus of my body, although still aware enough of the outside world so it's not like when I've entered deep trance-like states whereas I loose all sense of the outside world and the innerworld blooms. I was dx'd with Depersonalization disorder a few years ago when I was under alot of stress and would have this happen accidentally, or when sleepy. Although it can be fun, I would just say observe but not get too excited by it. Just my 2cts.
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Re: Weirdest experience so far.

Postby 5heaps » Tue Apr 30, 2013 3:40 am

K.Dhamma wrote: But I guess the more accurate thing would be to ask; What is causing the feeling? What coyote said might be something.

when your mind is in the desire realm you are accompanied by all your desire realm suffering, namely all the mental and physical stress of living in a screwed up world with a screwed up/suffering mind.
naturally as one develops concentration these stresses alleviate slightly. this is because when one spends more and more time on their meditation object they have less time to be focusing on their suffering and the circumstances that produce suffering

also in the 9 stages of meditation presentation, at the 3rd and 4th stages you spend more time on your meditation object then off your meditation object and so this start to mess with your self-image in space, which can produce strange experience, such as feeling that you are bent over, that your neck is bent over, that your hands are on the other side of the room, that you are cut in half each half of your body are in different locations, etc. theyre distractions in the chase of cultivating stronger concentration.
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