Whose Buddhism is the truest?

Theravāda in the 21st century - modern applications of ancient wisdom
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cooran
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Whose Buddhism is the truest?

Postby cooran » Fri May 03, 2013 5:22 am

Hello all,

I found this article in Tricycle surprising and interesting:

Whose Buddhism is the truest?

http://www.tricycle.com/feature/whose-buddhism-truest

With metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

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Kim OHara
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Re: Whose Buddhism is the truest?

Postby Kim OHara » Fri May 03, 2013 5:28 am

Hi, Chris,
A good article, but I have seen it via DW before ... haven't got time just now to look for the older thread, however.

:namaste:
Kim

P.S. see also http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=17061#p243767
:coffee:
Kim
Last edited by Kim OHara on Fri May 03, 2013 5:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

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tiltbillings
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Re: Whose Buddhism is the truest?

Postby tiltbillings » Fri May 03, 2013 5:29 am

cooran wrote:Hello all,

I found this article in Tricycle surprising and interesting:

Whose Buddhism is the truest?

http://www.tricycle.com/feature/whose-buddhism-truest

With metta
Chris
This has already been looked at. I'll see if I can find the thread.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

dheamhan a fhios agam
Damned if I know.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson

Nyana
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Re: Whose Buddhism is the truest?

Postby Nyana » Fri May 03, 2013 5:45 am

It was discussed in this thread: Mahayana split.

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retrofuturist
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Re: Whose Buddhism is the truest?

Postby retrofuturist » Fri May 03, 2013 5:45 am

Greetings,

"Harrison agrees with the general scholarly consensus that the Mahayana developed after the Buddha"

That's all I needed to know ~ thanks.

:buddha1:

Metta,
Retro. :)
Through corruption of the Dhamma comes corruption of the discipline, and from corruption of the discipline comes corruption of the Dhamma. This is the first future danger as yet unarisen that will arise in the future. You should recognize it and make an effort to prevent it. (AN 5.79)

Neither traceable in the Discourses nor verifiable by the Discipline, one must conclude thus: 'Certainly, this is not the Blessed One's utterance; this has been misunderstood by that bhikkhu — or by that community, or by those elders, or by that elder.' In that way, bhikkhus, you should reject it. (DN 16)

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Re: Whose Buddhism is the truest?

Postby plwk » Fri May 03, 2013 5:55 am

I can't help but to think that IF the Mahasamghikas and Sarvastivadins were still around, they would have given Theravada a run for the money... lol
Bhikkhus, if you develop and make much this one thing,
it invariably leads to weariness, cessation, appeasement, realization and extinction.
What is it? It is recollecting the Enlightened One.
If this single thing is recollected and made much,
it invariably leads to weariness, cessation, appeasement, realization and extinction.

Anguttara-Nikaya: Ekanipata: Ekadhammapali: Pañhamavagga
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tiltbillings
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Re: Whose Buddhism is the truest?

Postby tiltbillings » Fri May 03, 2013 5:59 am

Ñāṇa wrote:It was discussed in this thread: Mahayana split.
Thanks for finding it.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

dheamhan a fhios agam
Damned if I know.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson

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Kare
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Re: Whose Buddhism is the truest?

Postby Kare » Fri May 03, 2013 6:45 am

plwk wrote:I can't help but to think that IF the Mahasamghikas and Sarvastivadins were still around, they would have given Theravada a run for the money... lol


Not to mention the Sammitiyas (Puggalavadins).
Mettāya,
Kåre

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tiltbillings
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Re: Whose Buddhism is the truest?

Postby tiltbillings » Fri May 03, 2013 6:53 am

I am all for the school that thought the Buddha's poop smelled like sandalwood.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

dheamhan a fhios agam
Damned if I know.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson

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daverupa
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Re: Whose Buddhism is the truest?

Postby daverupa » Fri May 03, 2013 11:16 am

tiltbillings wrote:I am all for the school that thought the Buddha's poop smelled like sandalwood.


Image

Reminds me of the Catholic Eucharist, for some reason...
    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.
- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]

Rasko
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Re: Whose Buddhism is the truest?

Postby Rasko » Fri May 03, 2013 12:09 pm

Traces of Gandhāran Buddhism: An Exhibition of Buddhist Manuscripts in the Schøyen Collection
Jens Braarvig and Fredrik Liland
With contributions by: Jens-Uwe Hartmann, Kazunobu Matsuda, Richard Salomon, Lore Sander
2010
http://www.indologie.uni-muenchen.de/do ... alogue.pdf

alan
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Re: Whose Buddhism is the truest?

Postby alan » Fri May 03, 2013 1:57 pm

I no longer waste time with that Tricycle, which seems to have ulterior motives.

This article is a good example of what they often present as research. Lots of words which sound impressive, a few true facts intermingled with an assumed conclusion. Nothing was proven, but the feel of authenticity lingers. As usual, we are lead to believe Buddhism is just a free-floating thing that no one can really get. Or maybe we all can, just tune in next month. Besides, who wants to waste time actually studying?

Oh, and buy our magazine.

binocular
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Re: Whose Buddhism is the truest?

Postby binocular » Fri May 03, 2013 6:11 pm

Whose Buddhism is truest?


"Monks, do not wage wordy warfare, saying: 'You don't understand this Dhamma and discipline, I understand this Dhamma and discipline'; 'How could you understand it? You have fallen into wrong practices: I have the right practice'; 'You have said afterwards what you should have said first, and you have said first what you should have said afterwards';[1] 'What I say is consistent, what you say isn't'; 'What you have thought out for so long is entirely reversed'; 'Your statement is refuted'; 'You are talking rubbish!'; 'You are in the wrong'; 'Get out of that if you can!'

"Why should you not do this? Such talk, monks, is not related to the goal, it is not fundamental to the holy life, does not conduce to disenchantment, dispassion, cessation, tranquillity, higher knowledge, enlightenment or to Nibbana. When you have discussions, monks, you should discuss Suffering, the Arising of Suffering, its Cessation, and the Path that leads to its Cessation. Why is that? Because such talk is related to the goal... it conduces to disenchantment... to Nibbana. This is the task you must accomplish."


SN 56.9

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polarbear101
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Re: Whose Buddhism is the truest?

Postby polarbear101 » Fri May 03, 2013 9:21 pm

Whatever buddhism when adopted and undertaken leads to the total abandoning of passion, aversion, and delusion is the truest.

:anjali:
"I don't envision a single thing that, when developed & cultivated, leads to such great benefit as the mind. The mind, when developed & cultivated, leads to great benefit."

"I don't envision a single thing that, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about such suffering & stress as the mind. The mind, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about suffering & stress."

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manas
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Re: Whose Buddhism is the truest?

Postby manas » Fri May 03, 2013 11:15 pm

binocular wrote:Whose Buddhism is truest?


"Monks, do not wage wordy warfare, saying: 'You don't understand this Dhamma and discipline, I understand this Dhamma and discipline'; 'How could you understand it? You have fallen into wrong practices: I have the right practice'; 'You have said afterwards what you should have said first, and you have said first what you should have said afterwards';[1] 'What I say is consistent, what you say isn't'; 'What you have thought out for so long is entirely reversed'; 'Your statement is refuted'; 'You are talking rubbish!'; 'You are in the wrong'; 'Get out of that if you can!'

"Why should you not do this? Such talk, monks, is not related to the goal, it is not fundamental to the holy life, does not conduce to disenchantment, dispassion, cessation, tranquillity, higher knowledge, enlightenment or to Nibbana. When you have discussions, monks, you should discuss Suffering, the Arising of Suffering, its Cessation, and the Path that leads to its Cessation. Why is that? Because such talk is related to the goal... it conduces to disenchantment... to Nibbana. This is the task you must accomplish."


SN 56.9

:goodpost:

good.point,binocular.
but.not.easy.to.always.practice
although.we.ought.to

metta
:anjali:

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Ben
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Re: Whose Buddhism is the truest?

Postby Ben » Fri May 03, 2013 11:22 pm

alan wrote:I no longer waste time with that Tricycle, which seems to have ulterior motives.

This article is a good example of what they often present as research. Lots of words which sound impressive, a few true facts intermingled with an assumed conclusion. Nothing was proven, but the feel of authenticity lingers. As usual, we are lead to believe Buddhism is just a free-floating thing that no one can really get. Or maybe we all can, just tune in next month. Besides, who wants to waste time actually studying?

Oh, and buy our magazine.


I agree.
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

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Kare
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Re: Whose Buddhism is the truest?

Postby Kare » Sat May 04, 2013 10:21 am

cooran wrote:
Whose Buddhism is the truest?



Mine, of course. :rolleye:
Mettāya,
Kåre

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Viscid
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Re: Whose Buddhism is the truest?

Postby Viscid » Sat May 04, 2013 9:12 pm

Kare wrote:
cooran wrote:Whose Buddhism is the truest?

Mine, of course. :rolleye:

Bah! Beat me to it.
"What holds attention determines action." - William James

dharmagoat
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Re: Whose Buddhism is the truest?

Postby dharmagoat » Sat May 04, 2013 11:03 pm

The Buddha's?

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m0rl0ck
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Re: Whose Buddhism is the truest?

Postby m0rl0ck » Sun May 05, 2013 1:22 am

Pretty exciting stuff, anyone know if there are any translations / comparisions published?
What i find most interesting about this is
The manuscript record in Pali, however, doesn’t begin until about 800 C.E.

about the same time chan was well established in china and that the manuscripts in the article are even earlier.

The collections contain the earliest known Prajnaparamita (Perfection of Wisdom) texts


Id love to read some more about that.
"When you meditate, don't send your mind outside. Whatever knowledge you've gained from books or teachers, don't bring it in to complicate things. Cut away all preoccupations, and then as you meditate let all your knowledge come from what's going on in the mind. When the mind is quiet, you'll know it for yourself. But you have to keep meditating a lot. When the time comes for things to develop, they'll develop on their own. Whatever you know, have it come from your own mind.http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/thai/dune/giftsheleft.html"


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