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Difficulty with certain kind of conception of Kamma. - Page 2 - Dhamma Wheel

Difficulty with certain kind of conception of Kamma.

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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fivebells
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Re: Difficulty with certain kind of conception of Kamma.

Postby fivebells » Sun May 12, 2013 8:42 pm

And I'm not saying you should believe it. I don't believe it either. I'm just saying perhaps progress on the path includes skill in fabricating skillful beliefs. There are cases where the Buddha rebuts beliefs not in terms of their ontological validity, but in terms of their psychological implications and effects (', thus assumed and thus misapprehended, lead to such a future destination, to such a state in the world beyond.') It suggests to me that ontological beliefs may be things to pick up and put down as the practice demands, just like the verbal wishes one makes in formal brahmavihara practice in order to connect to the actual feeling of the brahmaviharas.

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polarbear101
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Re: Difficulty with certain kind of conception of Kamma.

Postby polarbear101 » Sun May 12, 2013 9:05 pm

"I don't envision a single thing that, when developed & cultivated, leads to such great benefit as the mind. The mind, when developed & cultivated, leads to great benefit."

"I don't envision a single thing that, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about such suffering & stress as the mind. The mind, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about suffering & stress."

dxm_dxm
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Re: Difficulty with certain kind of conception of Kamma.

Postby dxm_dxm » Mon May 13, 2013 12:51 am

There is no effect without a cause. For the reason you were born here and exist you will be born and exist in the future until you will destroy that cause and not exist anymore and be in nirvana. The thing that decides your conditions of existence is karma. The reason why it is karma is not possible to find out using intellectual thinking but only by meditating and finding that it is true/false within yourself. That is the official budhist view on this problem. If there could be proven using intellectual thinking that karma is the law that decides the conditions of your existence we would live in a world of saints.

Also nobody said we had an infinite number of rebirths before this. We had a big but limited number of rebirths. (about your quote, does 4 oceans seem limited or unlimited?) The reason why you came into existence in the first place is also something impossible to understand through intellectual thinking and budha said it is impossible to explain in words that, just like it is impossible to explain quantum phisics to a dog so you have to find that answer by yourself using the techniques you consider apropiate.

Although budhism is a system that has never been contradicted, proven illogical, disproved scientifically by nobody in 2500 years it has these 2 spots you touched (probably 3 do not remember exactly) that can be neither proven nor disproved intellectually, just like string theory. Sad but you have to live with it. The nice part is that it gives no importance to intellectual thinking and promises you to find out the answers by yourself using the techniques it teaches, that is the whole point.

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Alex123
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Re: Difficulty with certain kind of conception of Kamma.

Postby Alex123 » Mon May 13, 2013 12:55 am

"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

dxm_dxm
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Re: Difficulty with certain kind of conception of Kamma.

Postby dxm_dxm » Mon May 13, 2013 1:11 am

As I said, it is something impossible to comprehend with intellectual thinking. It could not be a cause and at the same time it could not be causeless. It is something impossible to comprehend with our human brain just like you can't teach quantum physics to a dog. Budha said the same thing, that the "first cause" is one of the 4 unthinkables and that thinking intelectually about it would lead only to further confusion.

As I said, it is sad for me too but if somebody had an intellectual answer for this he would be 100x times more renowned than Einstine.

Think about the good part: budha said do not belive anything you hear, even if you heard it from me because even if it is right it has little value and you can never be sure. He teached the way to find out for yourself the answers but u have to cope with the idea that it will take a couple of time to do that. At least your dopamine and serotonine levels will skyrocket while doing that as a bonus to make it worth it for sure

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fivebells
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Re: Difficulty with certain kind of conception of Kamma.

Postby fivebells » Mon May 13, 2013 1:29 am

Alex123, is your confusion about this getting in the way of your practice?

pegembara
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Re: Difficulty with certain kind of conception of Kamma.

Postby pegembara » Mon May 13, 2013 5:27 am

And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.

binocular
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Re: Difficulty with certain kind of conception of Kamma.

Postby binocular » Mon May 13, 2013 5:55 am


5heaps
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Re: Difficulty with certain kind of conception of Kamma.

Postby 5heaps » Mon May 13, 2013 11:46 pm

A Japanese man has been arrested on suspicion of writing a computer virus that destroys and replaces files on a victim PC with manga images of squid, octopuses and sea urchins. Masato Nakatsuji, 27, of Izumisano, Osaka Prefecture, was quoted as telling police: "I wanted to see how much my computer programming skills had improved since the last time I was arrested."

hermitwin
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Re: Difficulty with certain kind of conception of Kamma.

Postby hermitwin » Mon May 13, 2013 11:56 pm

when does the result of a bad kamma bear fruit?
consider your present circumstances.
are you able to find food n shelter, free
from torture, imprisonment, seriuos debilitating illness?
then that is already the result of your good kamma.

while only the buddha can know the intricacies of
the workings of kamma, some things are pretty
obvious.

try spitting into someone's face or kicking a dog,
you wont have to wait very long to see the result of
your akusala.

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Alex123
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Re: Difficulty with certain kind of conception of Kamma.

Postby Alex123 » Tue May 14, 2013 12:48 am

"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."


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