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Ajahn Brahm for sale? - Page 12 - Dhamma Wheel

Ajahn Brahm for sale?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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Bhikkhu Pesala
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Sun May 12, 2013 6:28 pm

Last edited by Bhikkhu Pesala on Sun May 12, 2013 9:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
• • • • (Upasampadā: 24th June, 1979)

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Mindstar
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Postby Mindstar » Sun May 12, 2013 7:51 pm


Higher than lordship over all earth,
Higher than sojourning in heavens supreme,
Higher than empire over all the worlds,
Is Fruit of Entrance to the Dhamma Stream.
—Dhammapada

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David N. Snyder
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Postby David N. Snyder » Sun May 12, 2013 8:57 pm

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Bhikkhu Pesala
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Sun May 12, 2013 9:03 pm

• • • • (Upasampadā: 24th June, 1979)

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Alex123
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Postby Alex123 » Sun May 12, 2013 11:14 pm

How will Theravāda survive with such strict rules regarding money, etc? This is not 5th Century BC India. What worked then and there might not work today.

Didn't the Buddha allow to remove minor rules? So what is the problem? These are not Pārājika or Saṅghādisesa offenses.
"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

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retrofuturist
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Postby retrofuturist » Sun May 12, 2013 11:27 pm

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Alex123
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Postby Alex123 » Mon May 13, 2013 12:29 am

"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

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BlackBird
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Postby BlackBird » Mon May 13, 2013 12:34 am

What's the harm? It's for a good cause. A few people need to take a chill-sit instead of criticising Ajahn Brahm, their time would be better spent minding their own mind states. :juggling:
"For a disciple who has conviction in the Teacher's message & lives to penetrate it, what accords with the Dhamma is this:
'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." -

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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Postby Lazy_eye » Mon May 13, 2013 1:29 am


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Cittasanto
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Postby Cittasanto » Mon May 13, 2013 4:26 am



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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marc108
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Postby marc108 » Mon May 13, 2013 5:26 am

"It's easy for us to connect with what's wrong with us... and not so easy to feel into, or to allow us, to connect with what's right and what's good in us."

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retrofuturist
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Postby retrofuturist » Mon May 13, 2013 6:05 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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David N. Snyder
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Postby David N. Snyder » Mon May 13, 2013 5:08 pm

I agree with retro that 'unwholesome mind states' do not come into play; regardless of which side you are on.

I think this issue comes down to 3 major positions:

1. That what AB is doing is a violation of the Vinaya, that it involves 'trade'. And that the end does not justify the means.
2. That the goal is so noble, that this is not a violation of Vinaya and that AB does not profit from this.

I think both positions make good points. While the goal is certainly noble, it is never the case that the end always justifies the means. To use an extreme example, if monks started stock brokering at their computers to raise funds for the Sangha, there would obviously be complaints from the community about the Vinaya violations (even though the funds obtained would all go to the Sangha and not the individual monks).

And then there is a third position, which I am leaning toward:

3. AB is offering his time for teaching, not anything else and he doesn't directly benefit. Although, there could be the argument that AB indirectly benefits as the 'spiritual head' over the bhikkhuni monastery to be built. The goal is noble and it is to benefit the bhikkhunis who are in need of housing. The effort pushes to a possible gray area, but the monastics are allowed to hint at the need for a dwelling and the funds obtained are just for that: housing; not any luxurious living arrangements.
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Mr Man
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Postby Mr Man » Mon May 13, 2013 5:38 pm

Came across this yesterday: Cittaviveka Finances 2012/13

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BlackBird
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Postby BlackBird » Tue May 14, 2013 10:25 am

Well yes and no Retro. We're always filling in the blanks with our assumptions. Sometimes assumptions are not justified, and sometimes it's a fair cop of a guess.
Having observed the thread, I happen to be of the opinion that it's a fair cop of a guess (your posts excluded). Maybe I'm wrong, but even so it's not bad advice - A simple reminder for those who seek fault in the actions of others to pay attention to their own mindstates, as it is often possible when we find fault in others that our mind states aren't wholesome.

How often can you honestly say you go fault finding with a mind filled with compassion? In my case the answer is not often. Before you ask, In finding fault with fault finding - I have been careful of my own, as I'd hate to wind up a hypocrite ;)

But before this becomes overly meta in nature, I ought to reiterate it's merely a suggestion, nobody need listen to me or follow my advice.
metta
Jack
"For a disciple who has conviction in the Teacher's message & lives to penetrate it, what accords with the Dhamma is this:
'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." -

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gavesako
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Postby gavesako » Tue May 14, 2013 3:07 pm

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BlackBird
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Postby BlackBird » Wed May 15, 2013 12:55 am

"For a disciple who has conviction in the Teacher's message & lives to penetrate it, what accords with the Dhamma is this:
'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." -

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retrofuturist
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Postby retrofuturist » Wed May 15, 2013 1:14 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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BlackBird
Posts: 1925
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 12:07 pm
Location: New Zealand

Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Postby BlackBird » Wed May 15, 2013 1:28 am

Fair enough then, don't mind me :)
"For a disciple who has conviction in the Teacher's message & lives to penetrate it, what accords with the Dhamma is this:
'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." -

kilanta
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Postby kilanta » Thu May 16, 2013 1:09 pm



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