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Why does arahant's Cetana not produce kamma/vipaka? - Dhamma Wheel

Why does arahant's Cetana not produce kamma/vipaka?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
Coyote
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Why does arahant's Cetana not produce kamma/vipaka?

Postby Coyote » Thu May 16, 2013 2:28 pm

If Kamma is Cetana, why does an Arahant's Cetana not produce kamma-vipaka? Does it have something to do with the lack of ignorance in the Cetana?
"If beings knew, as I know, the results of giving & sharing, they would not eat without having given, nor would the stain of miserliness overcome their minds. Even if it were their last bite, their last mouthful, they would not eat without having shared."
Iti 26

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ground
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Re: Why does arahant's Cetana not produce kamma/vipaka?

Postby ground » Thu May 16, 2013 6:01 pm


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fivebells
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Re: Why does arahant's Cetana not produce kamma/vipaka?

Postby fivebells » Thu May 16, 2013 6:27 pm

ground, I don't think that really answers Coyote's question. Another way to phrase the question in terms of that sutta is, What's different about an arahant's intention, given that there is no production of renewed becoming? How do you eat, talk or travel about without intention? Does being an arahant mean disidentifying from the intentions and becomings which seem, from a conventional point of view, to be necessary to these activities?

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Re: Why does arahant's Cetana not produce kamma/vipaka?

Postby santa100 » Thu May 16, 2013 6:52 pm


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Re: Why does arahant's Cetana not produce kamma/vipaka?

Postby male_robin » Thu May 16, 2013 7:07 pm


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cooran
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Re: Why does arahant's Cetana not produce kamma/vipaka?

Postby cooran » Thu May 16, 2013 9:16 pm

Hello all

This previous thread may be of interest:

Arahants and kamma
viewtopic.php?f=16&t=232

With metta,
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

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Re: Why does arahant's Cetana not produce kamma/vipaka?

Postby Zakattack » Thu May 16, 2013 9:30 pm


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retrofuturist
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Re: Why does arahant's Cetana not produce kamma/vipaka?

Postby retrofuturist » Thu May 16, 2013 10:51 pm

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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ground
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Re: Why does arahant's Cetana not produce kamma/vipaka?

Postby ground » Fri May 17, 2013 1:36 am


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tiltbillings
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Re: Why does arahant's Cetana not produce kamma/vipaka?

Postby tiltbillings » Fri May 17, 2013 2:48 am


Gena1480
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Re: Why does arahant's Cetana not produce kamma/vipaka?

Postby Gena1480 » Fri May 17, 2013 2:56 am

i think
Arahant has intention without passion (dispassion)
while the worldling has intention with passion
there is two types of aggregates
the clinging aggregates
the aggregates with delight and passion
and aggregates with out delight and passion
metta

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fivebells
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Re: Why does arahant's Cetana not produce kamma/vipaka?

Postby fivebells » Fri May 17, 2013 3:38 am


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retrofuturist
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Re: Why does arahant's Cetana not produce kamma/vipaka?

Postby retrofuturist » Fri May 17, 2013 3:43 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

Zakattack
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Re: Why does arahant's Cetana not produce kamma/vipaka?

Postby Zakattack » Fri May 17, 2013 10:42 am


pegembara
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Re: Why does arahant's Cetana not produce kamma/vipaka?

Postby pegembara » Fri May 17, 2013 3:30 pm

And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.

Sylvester
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Re: Why does arahant's Cetana not produce kamma/vipaka?

Postby Sylvester » Sun May 19, 2013 11:45 am

Last edited by Sylvester on Mon May 20, 2013 1:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

Coyote
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Re: Why does arahant's Cetana not produce kamma/vipaka?

Postby Coyote » Sun May 19, 2013 5:07 pm

Thanks for all the replies everyone. Haven't had a lot of time to look over this thread in detail over the past couple of days, but I am getting to it.

Would it be fair to say that the "classical" explanation is that of kiriya mentioned above - i.e that the Arahants cetana/sankhara are karmically neutral? I'd really like to have the classical position down as a benchmark to evaluate the various ideas and suttas put forward in this thread.
Thanks for all the help.

Metta
"If beings knew, as I know, the results of giving & sharing, they would not eat without having given, nor would the stain of miserliness overcome their minds. Even if it were their last bite, their last mouthful, they would not eat without having shared."
Iti 26


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