What *NOT* to do as an Online Buddhist

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Jhana4
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What *NOT* to do as an Online Buddhist

Post by Jhana4 »

In reading the scriptures, there are two kinds of mistakes:
One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.
daverupa
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Re: What *NOT* to do as an Online Buddhist

Post by daverupa »

Sound advice. One additional point might be "use this list to assess your own behavior, and not the behavior of others."

Perhaps this is a good place to leave this image, as well. It's helpful to recognize when one is no longer having an actual discussion - it happens in person as well as on the internet, and is quite common.

:group:
  • "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.

- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
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Kim OHara
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Re: What *NOT* to do as an Online Buddhist

Post by Kim OHara »

:thumbsup:
Both good.
I like this, too:
PEOPLE WORTH TALKING TO (& NOT)
§ 117. “Let an observant person come, one neither fraudulent nor deceitful, one of straightforward nature. I instruct him, I teach him the Dhamma. Practicing as instructed, he in no long time rightly knows, rightly sees, ‘So this, it appears, is liberation from the bond, i.e., the bond of ignorance.’” — MN 80

§ 118. “Monks, it’s through his way of participating in a discussion that a person can be known as fit to talk with or unfit to talk with. If a person, when asked a question, doesn’t give a categorical answer to a question deserving a categorical answer, doesn’t give an analytical answer to a question deserving an analytical answer, doesn’t cross-question a question deserving cross-questioning, doesn’t put aside a question deserving to be put aside, then—that being the case—he is a person unfit to talk with. But if a person, when asked a question, gives a categorical answer to a question deserving a categorical answer, gives an analytical answer to a question deserving an analytical answer, cross-questions a question deserving cross-questioning, and puts aside a question deserving to be put aside, then—that being the case—he is a person fit to talk with.
“Monks, it’s through his way of participating in a discussion that a person can be known as fit to talk with or unfit to talk with. If a person, when asked a question, doesn’t stand by what is possible and impossible, doesn’t stand by agreed-upon assumptions, doesn’t stand by teachings known to be true,1 doesn’t stand by standard procedure, then—that being the case—he is a person unfit to
talk with. But if a person, when asked a question, stands by what is possible and impossible, stands by agreed-upon assumptions, stands by teachings known to be true, stands by standard procedure, then—that being the case—he is a person fit to talk with.
“Monks, it’s through his way of participating in a discussion that a person can be known as fit to talk with or unfit to talk with. If a person, when asked a question, wanders from one thing to another, pulls the discussion off the topic, shows anger & aversion and sulks, then—that being the case—he is a person unfit to talk with. But if a person, when asked a question, doesn’t wander from one thing to another, doesn’t pull the discussion off the topic, doesn’t show anger or aversion or sulk, then—that being the case—he is a person fit to talk with.
“Monks, it’s through his way of participating in a discussion that a person can be known as fit to talk with or unfit to talk with. If a person, when asked a question, puts down [the questioner], crushes him, ridicules him, grasps at his little mistakes, then—that being the case—he is a person unfit to talk with. But if a person, when asked a question, doesn’t put down [the questioner], doesn’t crush him, doesn’t ridicule him, doesn’t grasp at his little mistakes, then—that being the case—he is a person fit to talk with.
“Monks, it’s through his way of participating in a discussion that a person can be known as drawing near or not drawing near. One who lends ear draws near; one who doesn’t lend ear doesn’t draw near. Drawing near, one clearly knows one quality, comprehends one quality, abandons one quality, and realizes one quality.2 Clearly knowing one quality, comprehending one quality, abandoning one quality, and realizing one quality, one touches right release. For that’s the purpose of discussion, that’s the purpose of counsel, that’s the purpose of drawing near, that’s the purpose of lending ear: i.e., the liberation of the mind through no clinging.
Those who discuss when angered, dogmatic, arrogant, following what’s not the noble ones’ way,
seeking to expose each other’s faults, delight in each other’s misspoken word,
slip, stumble, defeat.
Noble ones don’t speak in that way.
If wise people, knowing the right time, want to speak,
then, words connected with justice, following the ways of the noble ones:
That’s what the enlightened ones speak, without anger or arrogance,
with a mind not boiling over, without vehemence, without spite.
Without envy, they speak from right knowledge. They would delight in what’s well-said and not disparage what’s not. They don’t study to find fault, don’t grasp at little mistakes, don’t put down, don’t crush, don’t speak random words.
For the purpose of knowledge, for the purpose of [inspiring] clear confidence,
counsel that’s true: That’s how noble ones give counsel, That’s the noble ones’ counsel.
Knowing this, the wise should give counsel without arrogance. — AN 3:68
NOTES
1. Reading aññ›tav›da with the Burmese edition. An alternate translation would be, “the teachings of those who know.”
2. According to the Commentary, these qualities are, respectively, the noble truth of the path, the noble truth of stress, the noble truth of the origination of stress, and the noble truth of the cessation of stress.
It's from http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... stions.pdf

:namaste:
Kim
Spiny Norman
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Re: What *NOT* to do as an Online Buddhist

Post by Spiny Norman »

I can't remember more than 3 things at once. :tongue:
Buddha save me from new-agers!
Jhana4
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Re: What *NOT* to do as an Online Buddhist

Post by Jhana4 »

Spiny Norman wrote:
I can't remember more than 3 things at once. :tongue:
That is an excellent off topic point. People who write articles on the internet love lists and always have something like "5,000 simple things to help with ____". People can only keep so many tips active in their minds at once and not all tips are as valuable as others. Much better would be "a short list of things for ______ that I tried, that produce the most results"
In reading the scriptures, there are two kinds of mistakes:
One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.
binocular
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Re: What *NOT* to do as an Online Buddhist

Post by binocular »

I'd add another thing not to do:
Place the responsibility for good communication exclusively on the other person.
Hic Rhodus, hic salta!
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Lazy_eye
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Re: What *NOT* to do as an Online Buddhist

Post by Lazy_eye »

Nice blog (now bookmarked), good advice!

I fall into some of these traps on occasion: #2, #3, #4 #6, #12 and #16 all come to mind.

One that I find particularly grating is #9 and its variants -- i.e. someone posts a snarky, combative or dismissive comment and then adds a chirpy "Metta' or :anjali: under it, just to twist the knife another turn... Unfortunately I have probably done this too..
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Monkey Mind
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Re: What *NOT* to do as an Online Buddhist

Post by Monkey Mind »

#17 Blame online Buddhists for the poor quality of the discussion.

#18 Disconnect from the Internet and drive to the nearest Dhamma/ Dharma center for some lovely discussion over tea.
"As I am, so are others;
as others are, so am I."
Having thus identified self and others,
harm no one nor have them harmed.

Sutta Nipāta 3.710
perkele
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Re: What *NOT* to do as an Online Buddhist

Post by perkele »

This lady has some good points to make.
Monkey Mind wrote:#17 Blame online Buddhists for the poor quality of the discussion.
I have done that a lot. Sorry.

Actually, I only come here to blame people.
Hmm...
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Monkey Mind
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Re: What *NOT* to do as an Online Buddhist

Post by Monkey Mind »

I'm just observing it is a bit of a paradox. The author does not name the online forum or venue, but she is expressing concern that the internet discussion does not meet certain quality standards.
"As I am, so are others;
as others are, so am I."
Having thus identified self and others,
harm no one nor have them harmed.

Sutta Nipāta 3.710
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Ben
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Re: What *NOT* to do as an Online Buddhist

Post by Ben »

daverupa wrote:Sound advice. One additional point might be "use this list to assess your own behavior, and not the behavior of others."
Abso-diddly-lutely!
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR

e: [email protected]..
Spiny Norman
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Re: What *NOT* to do as an Online Buddhist

Post by Spiny Norman »

Monkey Mind wrote:#18 Disconnect from the Internet and drive to the nearest Dhamma/ Dharma center for some lovely discussion over tea.
:o You mean talk to real people?! :jumping:
Buddha save me from new-agers!
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tiltbillings
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Re: What *NOT* to do as an Online Buddhist

Post by tiltbillings »

Spiny Norman wrote:
Monkey Mind wrote:#18 Disconnect from the Internet and drive to the nearest Dhamma/ Dharma center for some lovely discussion over tea.
:o You mean talk to real people?! :jumping:
They have expressive faces, vocal inflections, and body language. And so you do not have to used these dumb things: :smile:
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
Spiny Norman
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Re: What *NOT* to do as an Online Buddhist

Post by Spiny Norman »

tiltbillings wrote:
Spiny Norman wrote:
Monkey Mind wrote:#18 Disconnect from the Internet and drive to the nearest Dhamma/ Dharma center for some lovely discussion over tea.
:o You mean talk to real people?! :jumping:
They have expressive faces, vocal inflections, and body language.
Yes, but what about all the germs? :? :jumping:
Buddha save me from new-agers!
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Ben
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Re: What *NOT* to do as an Online Buddhist

Post by Ben »

Spiny Norman wrote:
Yes, but what about all the germs? :? :jumping:
What about them?
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR

e: [email protected]..
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