Excellent old book:George Grimm, The doctrine of the Buddha

Textual analysis and comparative discussion on early Buddhist sects and texts.
User avatar
Digger
Posts: 84
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 2:12 pm
Location: Florida USA

Excellent old book:George Grimm, The doctrine of the Buddha

Postby Digger » Sun May 26, 2013 3:45 pm

I just finished reading a book called “The Doctrine of the Buddha; The Religion of Reason” by George Grimm (1868-1945). It was written about 100 years ago by a German judge, intellectual and Pali scholar. About 500 pages long, it goes really deep into anatta, dependent co-arising, and other difficult topics with almost 500 direct Pali canon references to back up what the author is presenting. The subjects are explained brilliantly by someone who appears to have a truly deep grasp of what they are talking about and the writing ability to pass their knowledge to others. In a few places, you will see some differences between the author’s explanations and what is currently accepted / practiced. The author’s well supported contention is that he is presenting is the original doctrine that is contained in the older of the Pali texts.

A few links about the author:






A link to the book on Amazon:


I would be very appreciative if a few here would take the time to read this book in its entirety and post your opinions of it here.

If you cannot obtain or afford a copy, send me a private message and I will buy and send books at no cost to the first half dozen or so who request one.
He is different. He thinks.

User avatar
daverupa
Posts: 5980
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 6:58 pm

Re: Excellent old book

Postby daverupa » Sun May 26, 2013 4:32 pm

Well, perhaps you'd like to suggest a few pages within the work which might serve as an example of what has impressed you. I have my copy waiting right here.

:reading:

User avatar
Crazy cloud
Posts: 261
Joined: Sun May 12, 2013 8:55 am

Re: Excellent old book

Postby Crazy cloud » Sun May 26, 2013 4:42 pm

I'm in, but awaites a little more teasing - "daverupa" has a nice suggestion

:candle:
your name Mori means forest like the infinite fresh green distances of your blindness

User avatar
gavesako
Posts: 1720
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2009 5:16 pm

Re: Excellent old book

Postby gavesako » Sun May 26, 2013 7:43 pm

Bhikkhu Gavesako
Kiṃkusalagavesī anuttaraṃ santivarapadaṃ pariyesamāno... (MN 26)

- Theravada texts
- Translations and history of Pali texts
- Sutta translations

User avatar
BlackBird
Posts: 1925
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 12:07 pm
Location: New Zealand

Re: Excellent old book

Postby BlackBird » Mon May 27, 2013 1:13 am

"For a disciple who has conviction in the Teacher's message & lives to penetrate it, what accords with the Dhamma is this:
'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." -

User avatar
Digger
Posts: 84
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 2:12 pm
Location: Florida USA

Re: Excellent old book

Postby Digger » Mon May 27, 2013 2:39 pm

Regarding some "teasers", I was going to pick out and post a few quotes from the book. But just like showing someone a few pieces from a jigsaw puzzle, I don't think you can get a good feel of the book from a few quotes.

Please consider:

a) We are here together in this "Early Buddhism" discussion forum so I am going to assume it is to openly discuss early Buddhism
b) There is an old intelligently written book on early Buddhism that includes numerous (around 500) supporting Pali text references
c) This book does propose contradictions that I would like to openly discuss with others here
d) In order to discuss the book, others will also have to read it and not close their minds because of a "judgement" such as Gavesako's attachment
e) I am offering free of charge to send copies of the book to anyone who is so inclined to engage in this discussion or just wants to read it
f) Aside from anything contradictory, this book also intelligently presents many "accepted" topics in a way that even a "negatively biased" reader may benefit from

Also, can someone please send me a "test" private message (just hello is fine), and let me know that you have done so by posting here, just so I can make sure my email is receiving private messages (email troubles a while ago)

Thanks all!
He is different. He thinks.

User avatar
ancientbuddhism
Posts: 882
Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2011 12:53 pm
Location: Cyberia

Re: Excellent old book

Postby ancientbuddhism » Mon May 27, 2013 3:22 pm

I say, beware of all enterprises that require new clothes, and not rather a new wearer of clothes.” – Henry David Thoreau, Walden, 1854

Secure your own mask before assisting others. – NORTHWEST AIRLINES (Pre-Flight Instruction)


User avatar
daverupa
Posts: 5980
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 6:58 pm

Re: Excellent old book

Postby daverupa » Mon May 27, 2013 4:15 pm


User avatar
Digger
Posts: 84
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 2:12 pm
Location: Florida USA

Re: Excellent old book

Postby Digger » Tue May 28, 2013 12:40 am

For Daverupa:

If something misses the mark, that is what I would like to discuss.

Are you quoting from the hardcover or the paperback? I have the recent version of the paperback (copyright 2007) and the page numbers do not correlate with what you are quoting.

Regarding Grimm's presentation of Anatta, I am not "pro" one way or the other. I saw something controversial written by someone who is certainly intelligent that I would like to openly discuss.

Even with his presentation of Anatta aside, I liked the way Grimm laid out dependent co-arising and some of his other explanations. For example, page 231 of the paperback, section on discussing rebirth, "To the paroxysms of lust in the moment of coition thus stand opposed to the pangs of death of the creature just conceived". In the preface, he quotes Schopenhauer as saying that genuine geniuses (who are able to penetrate the depths of actuality) are so rare that they "reach hands to one another across the centuries". I think there are things worthwhile in this book.

Thanks!
He is different. He thinks.

User avatar
mikenz66
Posts: 14947
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 7:37 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Excellent old book

Postby mikenz66 » Tue May 28, 2013 3:46 am

Hi Digger,

I don't have time to read the book, but this is an interesting topic in the context of Early Buddhism. Theraveda, most of the other sects, and many (not all) modern interpreters, would disagree, but the Pudgalavada https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pudgalavada did subscribe to some sort of "self".

Since this is the Early Buddhism section, discussion of such various interpretations is very much to the point, whether one agrees with them or not is really an issue for another forum.

:anjali:
Mike

User avatar
daverupa
Posts: 5980
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 6:58 pm

Re: Excellent old book

Postby daverupa » Tue May 28, 2013 2:07 pm


User avatar
ancientbuddhism
Posts: 882
Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2011 12:53 pm
Location: Cyberia

Re: Excellent old book

Postby ancientbuddhism » Tue May 28, 2013 2:36 pm

I say, beware of all enterprises that require new clothes, and not rather a new wearer of clothes.” – Henry David Thoreau, Walden, 1854

Secure your own mask before assisting others. – NORTHWEST AIRLINES (Pre-Flight Instruction)


User avatar
daverupa
Posts: 5980
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 6:58 pm

Re: Excellent old book

Postby daverupa » Wed May 29, 2013 12:10 am

Okay, it looks as though I'm using a 1994 reprint, which may have used different pagination.

The quote I referred to earlier as being on page 229 is the beginning of section III, The most excellent Truth of the Annihilation of Suffering - Nibbana, so that should be easy to find.

Page 145 comes under section I, subsection The Subject of Suffering. It's just after a sutta passage involving "brother Yamaka".

& page 371 is in the appendix, a couple of paragraphs before the beginning of 2. The Metaphysics of the Buddha.

:reading:

User avatar
Digger
Posts: 84
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 2:12 pm
Location: Florida USA

Re: Excellent old book

Postby Digger » Thu May 30, 2013 1:24 am

For Daverupa:

Ok, your page 145 is my page 172. Are you reading the Yamaka Sutta and saying that it, and/or any other suttas clearly demonstrate that there is "no self", i.e. if there is no self in a, b, c, d, e, then it or something does not exist elsewhere, as Grimm is presenting? Unfortunately I am unable to read Pali myself, so I must accept as correct English interpretations that I read. Are you stating your position from your ability to read and properly translate Pali or are you, as I, reading English interpretations? Please understand I am not saying this or anything to be argumentative or insulting, just trying to dig deep and understand clearly.

I guess a similar question could be asked regarding your page 229 quote (my page 299) and your page 371 (my page 501).

I am not pushing that Grimm is correct or incorrect, just trying to understand why you think he is not. And from what others recently posted here, Grimm is clearly not alone in his interpretation (others sided with him from both roughly 25 centuries ago and in the past 100 years). This is an area where I can understand the arguments of both sides.

Thanks for taking the time to discuss this.
He is different. He thinks.

User avatar
daverupa
Posts: 5980
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 6:58 pm

Re: Excellent old book

Postby daverupa » Thu May 30, 2013 11:17 am


User avatar
Kim OHara
Posts: 4346
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2009 5:47 am
Location: North Queensland, Australia

Re: Excellent old book

Postby Kim OHara » Thu May 30, 2013 11:53 am


User avatar
ancientbuddhism
Posts: 882
Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2011 12:53 pm
Location: Cyberia

Re: Excellent old book

Postby ancientbuddhism » Thu May 30, 2013 2:18 pm

I say, beware of all enterprises that require new clothes, and not rather a new wearer of clothes.” – Henry David Thoreau, Walden, 1854

Secure your own mask before assisting others. – NORTHWEST AIRLINES (Pre-Flight Instruction)


User avatar
Kim OHara
Posts: 4346
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2009 5:47 am
Location: North Queensland, Australia

Re: Excellent old book

Postby Kim OHara » Thu May 30, 2013 10:23 pm


nibbuti
Posts: 155
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 11:36 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Excellent old book

Postby nibbuti » Thu May 30, 2013 11:58 pm


User avatar
Dmytro
Posts: 1449
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 7:24 pm
Location: Kyiv, Ukraine
Contact:

Re: Excellent old book

Postby Dmytro » Fri May 31, 2013 6:17 am




Return to “Early Buddhism”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

Google Saffron, Theravada Search Engine