Rapture and bliss.
Rapture and bliss.
I know that not everyone experiences these in the same way. But does everyone experience rapture prior to bliss? Any suttas or anything that someone can post/link?
"Remember you dont meditate to get anything, but to get rid of things. We do it, not with desire, but with letting go. If you want anything, you wont find it." - Ajahn Chah
Re: Rapture and bliss.
I don't know any suttas relating to this, but I know from experience that it's quite possible to go straight to bliss.
Re: Rapture and bliss.
Are you asking about piti and sukha? If so, which term is bliss? I am guessing sukha, but are you asking about these two in terms of jhana factors, or perhaps in terms of anapanasati? Or something else?
I guess I'd like you to define your terms.
I guess I'd like you to define your terms.
- "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.
"And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.
- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
Re: Rapture and bliss.
as far as jhana factors. and yes, piti and sukha. does everyone experience piti in the first jhana or is it possible to go straight into the first (anapanasati)jhana and only experience bliss?
"Remember you dont meditate to get anything, but to get rid of things. We do it, not with desire, but with letting go. If you want anything, you wont find it." - Ajahn Chah
Re: Rapture and bliss.
According to AN 5.28 ( http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html ), one'd need to get to the 3rd jhana for piti to drop away and only sukha remains. Also refer to the jhana factors diagram at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P%C4%ABti
Re: Rapture and bliss.
According to the ancient literature, both factors must be present for jhana to arise.
Be careful of misdiagnosing an experience as this or that desired state or label. Misdiagnosis is extremely common.
If you don't have access to a teacher or guide to confer with, I would take as my guide the tipitaka, the visuddhimagga and the works of latter-day meditation exponents.
kind regards,
Ben
Be careful of misdiagnosing an experience as this or that desired state or label. Misdiagnosis is extremely common.
If you don't have access to a teacher or guide to confer with, I would take as my guide the tipitaka, the visuddhimagga and the works of latter-day meditation exponents.
kind regards,
Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725
Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global Relief • UNHCR
e: [email protected]..
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725
Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global Relief • UNHCR
e: [email protected]..
- reflection
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Re: Rapture and bliss.
When interpreting the advise you will be given here, I think it's good to realize there is a lot of talking past each other because of the many interpretations of jhana and its factors, and translations. As for me, I agree with Ajahn Brahm's explanation of jhana and he states that piti and sukkha are indistinguishable until third jhana. Until that point they occur together as if one.
I also agree with Ben to be careful for misdiagnosis.
I also agree with Ben to be careful for misdiagnosis.
Re: Rapture and bliss.
Yes, everyone experience rapture prior to bliss.K.Dhamma wrote:I know that not everyone experiences these in the same way. But does everyone experience rapture prior to bliss? Any suttas or anything that someone can post/link?
Yes, everyone experience piti in the first jhana.does everyone experience piti in the first jhana or is it possible to go straight into the first (anapanasati)jhana and only experience bliss?
No, it is not possible to go straight into the first (anapanasati) jhana and only experience bliss.
Re: Rapture and bliss.
Nope, they are clearly distinguishable.reflection wrote:I agree with Ajahn Brahm's explanation of jhana and he states that piti and sukkha are indistinguishable until third jhana. Until that point they occur together as if one.
piti= joy
sukha= satisfaction caused by joy
EDIT: I meant joy (extreme happiness)
- reflection
- Posts: 1116
- Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:27 pm
Re: Rapture and bliss.
This is already a good example of different interpretations talking past each other.rahul3bds wrote:Nope, they are clearly distinguishable.reflection wrote:I agree with Ajahn Brahm's explanation of jhana and he states that piti and sukkha are indistinguishable until third jhana. Until that point they occur together as if one.
piti= joy
sukha= satisfaction caused by joy
EDIT: I meant joy (extreme happiness)
I found this part of Ajahn Brahm's book for those interested:
http://books.google.nl/books?id=ptmMsW1 ... hm&f=false