Is marriage a path to Nibbana?

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Re: Is marriage a path to Nibbana?

Postby retrofuturist » Sat Jun 15, 2013 1:15 am

Greetings,
binocular wrote:
kirk5a wrote: Where does he get "naturally empties lust from the minds of the couple" from?

Because in time, sexual lust turns to boredom, contempt and lust for chocolate. :yingyang:

:clap:

Metta,
Retro. :)
If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding:
Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)


Exalted in mind, just open and clearly aware, the recluse trained in the ways of the sages:
One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7


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Re: Is marriage a path to Nibbana?

Postby PadmaPhala » Sat Jun 15, 2013 1:34 am

chocolate or icecream.
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Re: Is marriage a path to Nibbana?

Postby PadmaPhala » Sat Jun 15, 2013 1:36 am

a marriage among two anagamis, yes.
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Re: Is marriage a path to Nibbana?

Postby manas » Sat Jun 15, 2013 1:58 am

I can recall sitting at this table of married men, and we were talking about life and stuff. Anyway I had been single for some time (again), and I said to them "you guys are all lucky, you have a woman in your life. I am sexually frustrated, I'm not getting any at all" to which they replied almost in unison, "Neither are we!"

I think marriage could be a happy long-term situation, if both parties were really good friends, were capable of a bit of detachment from sense desires, and were of course on the same life path. Otherwise, I mostly see frustration (or boredom as was mentioned above) in alot of married folks I know. Not much 'Nibbana'. lol

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Re: Is marriage a path to Nibbana?

Postby barcsimalsi » Sat Jun 15, 2013 4:28 am

Ben wrote:-Marriage is a vow to dissolve the self and become two.

It sounds like polygamy will further dissolve the self.

Ben wrote:-Marriage is a system in which you practice to love, care, respect your counterpart thus help dissolve EGO.

Not if someone start to harass thy wife and being a patriarch is like reinforcing the ego itself. I was speaking on the behalf of the male counterpart.

Ben wrote:-Marriage brings a joy of creation of another life (offspring), watch them grow, take a form, experience working of Sanskaras and karma.

And those joy will turn to anxiety when something bad happen to the offspring or perhaps this will give more insights on the 4nt.
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Re: Is marriage a path to Nibbana?

Postby binocular » Sat Jun 15, 2013 6:15 am

Gaoxing wrote:But look at from another side. It depends on the woman you married. If she's nothing but trouble you could end up running for a monastery sooner than you wished for. That's a kind of vehicle isn't it?

Nope. To ordain, you'd need to have your spouse's permission. And if the spouse is indeed trouble, they won't give that permission.
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Re: Is marriage a path to Nibbana?

Postby Sekha » Sat Jun 15, 2013 6:18 am

Gaoxing wrote:But look at from another side. It depends on the woman you married. If she's nothing but trouble you could end up running for a monastery sooner than you wished for. That's a kind of vehicle isn't it?


The difference between "path" and "vehicle" here is that "marriage is a path" IMO would be interpreted as meaning that marriage is something that can eventually lead to Nibbana (as a path may eventually lead somewhere specific), whereas "marriage is a vehicle" would rather be interpreted as meaning that marriage would be something that will lead one all the way to Nibbana (as a vehicle is understood as something that leads one all the way to one's destination). So in your example, the correct conclusion would rather be "marriage is a kind of path", just like I said. :smile:

Also, in your logic it looks very much like you equate running for a monastery and being secure on the path to Nibbana, which is an opinion that is widely spread in Asia and that makes itself happen to be false because monks are so inclined to think that going forth is by itself enough that they become heedless and actually stray from the path with painful future to be expected instead of Nibbana.
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Re: Is marriage a path to Nibbana?

Postby Gaoxing » Sat Jun 15, 2013 6:57 am

Sekha wrote:
Gaoxing wrote:But look at from another side. It depends on the woman you married. If she's nothing but trouble you could end up running for a monastery sooner than you wished for. That's a kind of vehicle isn't it?


The difference between "path" and "vehicle" here is that "marriage is a path" IMO would be interpreted as meaning that marriage is something that can eventually lead to Nibbana (as a path may eventually lead somewhere specific), whereas "marriage is a vehicle" would rather be interpreted as meaning that marriage would be something that will lead one all the way to Nibbana (as a vehicle is understood as something that leads one all the way to one's destination). So in your example, the correct conclusion would rather be "marriage is a kind of path", just like I said. :smile:

Also, in your logic it looks very much like you equate running for a monastery and being secure on the path to Nibbana, which is an opinion that is widely spread in Asia and that makes itself happen to be false because monks are so inclined to think that going forth is by itself enough that they become heedless and actually stray from the path with painful future to be expected instead of Nibbana.
I'll try to make more serious jokes in the future.
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Re: Is marriage a path to Nibbana?

Postby pegembara » Sat Jun 15, 2013 7:39 am

The Buddha also took the path of marriage along the way to nibbana. So marriage can be a path for some and not so for others. But it must be said that that path will ultimately lead to the realisation that staying married in a conventional sense will not lead to nibbana.

"I, too, monks, before my Awakening, when I was an unawakened bodhisatta, being subject myself to birth, sought what was likewise subject to birth. Being subject myself to aging... illness... death... sorrow... defilement, I sought [happiness in] what was likewise subject to illness... death... sorrow... defilement. The thought occurred to me, 'Why do I, being subject myself to birth, seek what is likewise subject to birth? Being subject myself to aging... illness... death... sorrow... defilement, why do I seek what is likewise subject to illness... death... sorrow... defilement? What if I, being subject myself to birth, seeing the drawbacks of birth, were to seek the unborn, unexcelled rest from the yoke: Unbinding? What if I, being subject myself to aging... illness... death... sorrow... defilement, seeing the drawbacks of aging... illness... death... sorrow... defilement, were to seek the aging-less, illness-less, deathless, sorrow-less,, unexcelled rest from the yoke: Unbinding?'
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Re: Is marriage a path to Nibbana?

Postby Mr Man » Sat Jun 15, 2013 9:55 am

The reason for the institution that is marriage is not Nibbana.
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Re: Is marriage a path to Nibbana?

Postby PadmaPhala » Sat Jun 15, 2013 10:16 am

all of this is golden... effing golden.

currently unmarried :3 // but inLove aww... Lubh'hatti (Maitri is better... no! Karuneya... rofl)

binocular wrote:
Gaoxing wrote:But look at from another side. It depends on the woman you married. If she's nothing but trouble you could end up running for a monastery sooner than you wished for. That's a kind of vehicle isn't it?

Nope. To ordain, you'd need to have your spouse's permission. And if the spouse is indeed trouble, they won't give that permission.


lol ok, sutric reference?
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Re: Is marriage a path to Nibbana?

Postby PadmaPhala » Sat Jun 15, 2013 10:20 am

Gaoxing wrote:
Sekha wrote:(...)
I'll try to make more serious jokes in the future.


there's no holy sacrament of the legitimate institutionalization of buddhist church called marriage; there's however a LOT of ethics about marriage-like actions in buddhist sutras.

so, that means that a buddhist can (because it is really not relevant) marry under the catholic church (sneaky, there's lots of sexy <redacted> that are nominally catholics)...

...or marry under Game Of Thrones' Deities!!!
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Re: Is marriage a path to Nibbana?

Postby Gaoxing » Sat Jun 15, 2013 10:37 am

binocular wrote:
Gaoxing wrote:But look at from another side. It depends on the woman you married. If she's nothing but trouble you could end up running for a monastery sooner than you wished for. That's a kind of vehicle isn't it?

Nope. To ordain, you'd need to have your spouse's permission. And if the spouse is indeed trouble, they won't give that permission.
Dammit! Ok, that clarifies the matter. Marriage = suffering.
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Re: Is marriage a path to Nibbana?

Postby Gaoxing » Sat Jun 15, 2013 10:42 am

PadmaPhala wrote:
Gaoxing wrote:
Sekha wrote:(...)
I'll try to make more serious jokes in the future.


there's no holy sacrament of the legitimate institutionalization of buddhist church called marriage; there's however a LOT of ethics about marriage-like actions in buddhist sutras.

so, that means that a buddhist can (because it is really not relevant) marry under the catholic church (sneaky, there's lots of sexy <redacted> that are nominally catholics)...

...or marry under Game Of Thrones' Deities!!!
Yeah but as for the Game of Thrones thing, in some countries you'll have to get married every three or six months to avoid common law troubles. :twisted:
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Re: Is marriage a path to Nibbana?

Postby PadmaPhala » Sat Jun 15, 2013 11:51 am

meh, taking the Black.
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Re: Is marriage a path to Nibbana?

Postby Ben » Sat Jun 15, 2013 11:53 am

I think a lot of respondents to this thread are being overly pedantic.
And that is my fault as I did not explain that the material in my OP is from a Sri Lankan friend whose first language is not English.
So, reading the spirit of the original message is "Is marriage conducive to wholesome factors that assist in walking on the path?"
Perhaps we'll have a bit less pedantry and persiflage.
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Re: Is marriage a path to Nibbana?

Postby Gaoxing » Sat Jun 15, 2013 12:21 pm

Sorry Ben. I suppose I'm too unskillful for marriage.
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Re: Is marriage a path to Nibbana?

Postby retrofuturist » Sun Jun 16, 2013 1:34 am

Greetings,

I disagree with most of the logic and reasons provided in the OP.

As I see it, everyone (excluding arahants) experiences life as a sentient being subject to paticcasamuppada, and the life of a bhikkhu(ni) is the one the Buddha praised as most efficacious for the attainment of nibbana, and overcoming that arising.

That said, we're all in the same boat, lay or ordained, and whilst monastic circumstances might provide the more ideal environment for progress, there's doubtlessly pros and cons to each approach, and certain personality types that will find one mode of existence more authentic and true to their own sense of what is right, true and beneficial. Much of the path is about Right Intention and Right Effort, and whichever mode of living prompts these factors has certainly got something going for it.

Metta,
Retro. :)
If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding:
Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)


Exalted in mind, just open and clearly aware, the recluse trained in the ways of the sages:
One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7


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Re: Is marriage a path to Nibbana?

Postby BlackBird » Sun Jun 16, 2013 2:11 am

Hi Ben

Here's my 2c:

It can be skillful, or it can not be. It's a tool, like anything, it's more about how you use it than any intrinsic negatives or positives. They say motherhood is the fast track to Heaven. Well, the same I think could be said of a loving and caring relationship, where the partners care for each other and act upon wholesome feelings of metta and karuna.

Like anything, you can treat it as a kammathana - a working ground. It is a chance to perform skillful deeds that could make your quest to realize nibbana easier. Not to say that I'm suggesting all those who are seeking nibbana should go off and get hitched ;)

Life is what you make it.

metta
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Re: Is marriage a path to Nibbana?

Postby PadmaPhala » Sun Jun 16, 2013 2:16 am

it takes courage to be an urban buddhist monk.

5 precepts + 0 precept (ahimsa) replacing the whole of vinaya pitaka.
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