How do you contemplate anatta?

Discussion of Satipatthana bhavanā and Vipassana bhavana.

Re: How do you contemplate anatta?

Postby Spiny Norman » Sat Jun 08, 2013 9:10 am

SamKR wrote: The deeply held view that "I am seeing" is just an imputation based on ignorance.


Which suggests that it's only with the cessation of ignorance that there will be cessation of self-view.
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Re: How do you contemplate anatta?

Postby pegembara » Sat Jun 08, 2013 11:55 am

(1) In the seen (heard, sensed, cognized) there is no object being seen (heard, sensed, cognized); in the seen there is merely the seen (the experience/presence of seeing).
In other words, whatever "we" see is not an object lying out there; whatever "we" see is just the seen.
Objects cannot be seen. The deeply held view that "there is really that object lying out there, and I am seeing that object" is just an imputation based on ignorance. Nothing can be seen except the seen itself.


There is only the process of hearing. No hearer and no heard. What actually hears? Is it the eardrum, ear ossicles, cochlea, auditory nerve or brain? What is heard is nothing but vibrations. The "self" is an activity, not an entity. Even the ear is not truly existent(anatta) without its parts (the eardrum, ear ossicles, cochlea, auditory nerve or brain)

Image

Why now do you assume 'a being'?
Mara, have you grasped a view?
This is a heap of sheer constructions:
Here no being is found.

Just as, with an assemblage of parts,
The word 'chariot' is used,
So, when the aggregates are present,
There's the convention 'a being.'

It's only suffering that comes to be,
Suffering that stands and falls away.
Nothing but suffering comes to be,
Nothing but suffering ceases.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .bodh.html
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Re: How do you contemplate anatta?

Postby Spiny Norman » Sat Jun 08, 2013 1:06 pm

pegembara wrote:There is only the process of hearing.


Well, yes, contact arises in dependence on sound, ear and ear-consciousness. But in dependence on that contact there arises feeling and the various mental processes represented by the formations aggregate, including volition and subsequent behaviour.
Focussing on processes rather than entities is a useful approach, but I'm not sure it gets to the root of self-view.
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Re: How do you contemplate anatta?

Postby reflection » Sat Jun 08, 2013 2:28 pm

Contemplating how an ear works is looking from the outside. Contemplating anatta is on the inside, on experiences.
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Re: How do you contemplate anatta?

Postby SamKR » Sat Jun 08, 2013 3:06 pm

Spiny Norman wrote:
SamKR wrote: The deeply held view that "I am seeing" is just an imputation based on ignorance.


Which suggests that it's only with the cessation of ignorance that there will be cessation of self-view.


I would say, yes. They are interdependent.

Ignorance == ignorance-of-ignorance
In other words, ignorance is the ignorance about the fact that dependent on ignorance itself sankhara...dukkha (including self-view) co-arise.

Cessation-of-ignorance == gnosis-of-ignorance + gnosis-of-cessation-of-ignorance
In other words, cessation-of-ignorance is the gnosis that
-- dependent on ignorance itself sankhara...dukkha (including self-view) co-arise, and that
-- with the cessation of ignorance there is cessation of sankhara...dukkha (including self-view).
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Re: How do you contemplate anatta?

Postby Spiny Norman » Sun Jun 09, 2013 9:54 am

reflection wrote:Contemplating how an ear works is looking from the outside. Contemplating anatta is on the inside, on experiences.


Sure, although using "external" analogies like chariots could be a way in for some people. For me looking at collections of parts is a bit too static though.
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Re: How do you contemplate anatta?

Postby Spiny Norman » Sun Jun 09, 2013 10:14 am

BlackBird wrote:After this, sabbe dhammā anattā, 'All things are not-self', follows as a matter of course.[e]


I have a sense that anatta and anicca are 2 sides of the same coin, the coin being conditionality. I think... ;)
Last edited by Spiny Norman on Sun Jun 09, 2013 1:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How do you contemplate anatta?

Postby barcsimalsi » Sun Jun 09, 2013 12:43 pm

A compilation of the not self strategy translated by Thanissaro Bhikkhu. Hope it helps.

Personally, i contemplate on the 5 aggregates but i won't argue that i've no self because the self is the reference point for perceiving an individual identity which is of course not an entity but only a view.

My practice is simple; just remind myself the 5 aggregates are impermanent and conditioned so in regards to the Buddha's teaching, it will be a bad idea to cling to them.
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Re: How do you contemplate anatta?

Postby Spiny Norman » Sun Jun 09, 2013 1:12 pm

barcsimalsi wrote:A compilation of the not self strategy translated by Thanissaro Bhikkhu. Hope it helps.


Thanks. I found this observation interesting:
"Although the concept "not-self" is a useful way of disentangling oneself from the attachments & clingings which lead to suffering, the view that there is no self is simply one of many metaphysical or ontological views which bind one to suffering."
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Re: How do you contemplate anatta?

Postby Spiny Norman » Sun Jun 09, 2013 1:13 pm

barcsimalsi wrote:My practice is simple; just remind myself the 5 aggregates are impermanent and conditioned so in regards to the Buddha's teaching, it will be a bad idea to cling to them.


Could you say how you actually do that?
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Re: How do you contemplate anatta?

Postby barcsimalsi » Sun Jun 09, 2013 1:49 pm

Spiny Norman wrote:
barcsimalsi wrote:My practice is simple; just remind myself the 5 aggregates are impermanent and conditioned so in regards to the Buddha's teaching, it will be a bad idea to cling to them.


Could you say how you actually do that?

Whenever i felt over excited or frustrated with something especially things that associate with my self view, i will put into practice the contemplation of anicca towards the 5 aggregates. With understanding that any of the 5 aggregates is impermanent and conditioned, i find that everything will pass and there's nothing i can actually hold to hence there's nothing to be sad nor brag about my identity and this resulting of letting go. It is about being mindful and employing right effort at the right time. And you can practice it at any time.
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Re: How do you contemplate anatta?

Postby Soe Win Htut » Sun Jun 09, 2013 4:42 pm

Let me explain how i contemplate about Anatta; as I can understand about it;

Anatta means non-self, not entity, not soul, not ego, not something, not someone, not sometime, not someplace, not individual, not I, not you, or not being etc.

Self, entity, soul, ego, something, feeling, emotion, sensation, memory, thought, thinking, someone, sometime, someplace, individual, I, you or being are just created truths (Sammuti sacca).
They are not real. They are not real existence or real importance.
The truth of Created Truths are { to-use-only, to-experience-only, and to know-only} and Created truths are not to be rejected not attached, being taken as reality or real importance.
But the created truths seems to be real or in real importance because of the ignorance or wrong understanding of the created truths.

Due to the wrong understanding, everything, everyone, Self, entity, soul, ego, something, someone, sometime, someplace, individual, I, you or being seems to be real and in real importance.

ONLY the cause of "the ignorance of the truth of the created truths" causes the result of misunderstanding that Self, entity, soul, ego, something, feeling, emotion, sensation, memory, thought, thinking, someone, sometime, someplace, individual, I, you or being -etc.

ONLY THIS CAUSE AND THAT EFFECT ARE EXISTING REALLY IN THE FORM OF EVER-NEW IMPERMANENT NATURE. (ANNATTA).
SOMETHING, SOMEONE, SELF, EGO, SOUL, ENTITY, INDIVIDUAL, OR BEING IS NOT REALLY EXISTING.

WHATEVER OUR PERCEPTION CURRENTLY SENSES such as form, feeling, memory, volition, thinking are JUST CREATED TRUTHS.
IF something is changing, decaying, transient, inconsistent, impermanent and passing away, how should it be taken as reality or real existence?

They are not real existence. Whatever our current perceptions are detecting is "not to be rejected nor attached" as reality or real importance, but they are JUST "to be used-only, and experienced-only and known-only". No more for anything.

BY CONTEMPLATING LIKE THAT, DETACHMENT WILL COME OUT regarding to the MIND & BODY.

with metta,
Awareness(mental noting) alone is not enough for real enlightenment. (Ashin Tejaniya)
Created truths(Sammuti Sacca) are just to be used only, experienced only and known only but .....they are not for noting, believing, confirming, centering and thinking as reality and real importance.
Vipassana (Insight meditation) is just the abandoning the mind-action of centering, grasping, confirming, and attaching the created truths as reality and as of real importance.
To Learn more....
http://www.thabarwa.org, or
http://www.thabarwa.org/guided-insight-mp3-talks/
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Re: How do you contemplate anatta?

Postby binocular » Mon Jun 10, 2013 2:54 pm

Spiny Norman wrote:
barcsimalsi wrote:A compilation of the not self strategy translated by Thanissaro Bhikkhu. Hope it helps.


Thanks. I found this observation interesting:
"Although the concept "not-self" is a useful way of disentangling oneself from the attachments & clingings which lead to suffering, the view that there is no self is simply one of many metaphysical or ontological views which bind one to suffering."

You could also listen to some of Thanissaro Bhikkhu's short Dhamma talks here, searching them by keywords. He has a very pragmatic approach to things.
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Re: How do you contemplate anatta?

Postby Soe Win Htut » Thu Jun 13, 2013 12:10 am

Spiny Norman wrote:
barcsimalsi wrote:A compilation of the not self strategy translated by Thanissaro Bhikkhu. Hope it helps.


Thanks. I found this observation interesting:
"Although the concept "not-self" is a useful way of disentangling oneself from the attachments & clingings which lead to suffering, the view that there is no self is simply one of many metaphysical or ontological views which bind one to suffering."


Dear Sir,

Below link is the insight guided teaching based on Anatta - selfless nature: by Sayadaw U Ottamasara who is one of the well-known insight meditation masters in Burma nowadays. His teaching is mainly based on his direct own experiences. I hope you it can be very helpful for your wish of dragmatic & practical approach for contemplation of Anatta.

http://www.mediafire.com/folder/6sz518t ... Ottamasara


Any good deed, practice, view or any path including noble eightfold path is just to be done-only, used-only without grasping.
__By Sayadaw Ottamasara
Awareness(mental noting) alone is not enough for real enlightenment. (Ashin Tejaniya)
Created truths(Sammuti Sacca) are just to be used only, experienced only and known only but .....they are not for noting, believing, confirming, centering and thinking as reality and real importance.
Vipassana (Insight meditation) is just the abandoning the mind-action of centering, grasping, confirming, and attaching the created truths as reality and as of real importance.
To Learn more....
http://www.thabarwa.org, or
http://www.thabarwa.org/guided-insight-mp3-talks/
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Re: How do you contemplate anatta?

Postby Pacceka1996 » Tue Jun 18, 2013 7:40 am

hahaha.. maybe finding one's 'self' is what part of this is all about isn't it? Losing the ego, which is perceived as self, that hollow empty shell all want and desire. But self.. ohh.. that's way way way down deep inside. Maybe, cling to nothing, and what's left.. self.
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Re: How do you contemplate anatta?

Postby Ben » Tue Jun 18, 2013 7:47 am

Pacceka1996 wrote:hahaha.. maybe finding one's 'self' is what part of this is all about isn't it?

No.
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Re: How do you contemplate anatta?

Postby Pacceka1996 » Tue Jun 18, 2013 7:58 am

Ben wrote:
Pacceka1996 wrote:hahaha.. maybe finding one's 'self' is what part of this is all about isn't it?

No.


Okay. :-). Then good luck.
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Re: How do you contemplate anatta?

Postby Ben » Tue Jun 18, 2013 11:15 am

Pacceka1996 wrote:
Ben wrote:
Pacceka1996 wrote:hahaha.. maybe finding one's 'self' is what part of this is all about isn't it?

No.


Okay. :-). Then good luck.

Luck has nothing to do with it. But thanks anyway.
"One cannot step twice into the same river, nor can one grasp any mortal substance in a stable condition, but it scatters and again gathers; it forms and dissolves, and approaches and departs."

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Re: How do you contemplate anatta?

Postby lyndon taylor » Tue Jun 18, 2013 11:52 am

(Don't take this too seriously, a little tongue in cheek)

Try as I might I still don't know if I have a self, and I definetly don't know what self is, just that its bad and I should get rid of it. But what is it, how do I get rid of something I'm not even sure what it is, or if I have one, I know the 5 badguyragettes, and they are bad guys, not to be trusted, But if I completely ignore the 5 bad guys, I won't be able to drive to the coffee shop to eat, or type on my computer, so I compromise, I use the 5 bad guys, but I try not to let them use me. I wish I could tell you what it is like to be enlightened and not have all these problems, but to do that I'd have to be really pulling your leg, hope you've enjoyed my little story, now back to the real playas.....
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community that has so generously given me so much, sincerely former monk John
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Re: How do you contemplate anatta?

Postby Pacceka1996 » Tue Jun 18, 2013 12:41 pm

Okay. :-). Then good luck.[/quote]
Luck has nothing to do with it. But thanks anyway.[/quote]

:-D Forgive: I am new to Dharma speak.
ummm... self.Self - that which seeks liberation.
Synonym: the self, soul. spirit. character. Citta (pali)
Antonym: Me. I. Ego. mine. myself.
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