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How common is stream entry? - Page 18 - Dhamma Wheel

How common is stream entry?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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IanAnd
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Re: How common is stream entry?

Postby IanAnd » Sat Jun 22, 2013 5:22 am

"The gift of truth exceeds all other gifts" — Dhammapada, v. 354 Craving XXIV

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Spiny Norman
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Re: How common is stream entry?

Postby Spiny Norman » Sat Jun 22, 2013 8:43 am

"My religion is very simple - my religion is ice-cream."
Dairy Lama

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Viscid
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Re: How common is stream entry?

Postby Viscid » Sun Jun 23, 2013 5:09 am

Good post, Ian-- I'd benefit you stream-entrant status!

Though I've never liked the hierarchical framework for attainment as is... Instead of:

Puthujjana -> Stream Enterer -> Once-Returner -> Non-Returner -> Arahant,
it should go:
Puthujjana -> Path to Stream Entry -> Path to Once-Returner -> Path to Non-Returner -> Path to Arahantship -> Arahant.

Then you have this new useful classification of being on the 'path to becoming a stream-enterer' which is distinguished from mere puthujjaneity, yet claiming such a distinction doesn't necessitate the gall to make bold claims about one's identity-view.
"What holds attention determines action." - William James

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retrofuturist
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Re: How common is stream entry?

Postby retrofuturist » Sun Jun 23, 2013 6:07 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Zom
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Re: How common is stream entry?

Postby Zom » Sun Jun 23, 2013 9:57 am


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Spiny Norman
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Re: How common is stream entry?

Postby Spiny Norman » Sun Jun 23, 2013 10:24 am

"My religion is very simple - my religion is ice-cream."
Dairy Lama

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Zom
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Re: How common is stream entry?

Postby Zom » Sun Jun 23, 2013 11:40 am


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Mr Man
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Re: How common is stream entry?

Postby Mr Man » Sun Jun 23, 2013 2:47 pm

How is there conceit without a sense of self?

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Zom
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Re: How common is stream entry?

Postby Zom » Sun Jun 23, 2013 4:06 pm


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Re: How common is stream entry?

Postby Coyote » Sun Jun 23, 2013 4:14 pm

How I have had it explained is that the steam-enterant has eliminated self-view with regard to the aggregates, so he/she sees that form, feeling ect. are without self. But there is a lingering sense of "I" with regard to the being as a whole until arahantship.
"If beings knew, as I know, the results of giving & sharing, they would not eat without having given, nor would the stain of miserliness overcome their minds. Even if it were their last bite, their last mouthful, they would not eat without having shared."
Iti 26

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Zom
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Re: How common is stream entry?

Postby Zom » Sun Jun 23, 2013 5:18 pm


Coyote
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Re: How common is stream entry?

Postby Coyote » Sun Jun 23, 2013 5:34 pm

"If beings knew, as I know, the results of giving & sharing, they would not eat without having given, nor would the stain of miserliness overcome their minds. Even if it were their last bite, their last mouthful, they would not eat without having shared."
Iti 26

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Zom
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Re: How common is stream entry?

Postby Zom » Sun Jun 23, 2013 6:02 pm

Conceit is that very sense of self. And that very sense of self is the conceit -)

At the moment of "getting" fruit of stream-entry you realise (intellectualy, but deep enough) that in reality there is nothing that can be taken as "true self". That is why your self-view (ditthi --> views, ideas, thoughts about, opinions, ect) ruins. When you catch that idea, you understand how things (any things) happen in reality. And you will never ask youself or someone else any questions that are based on misunderstanding, that is, on one of two extremes of "existing individually" or "not existing individually". For example, some people ask: "how there is rebirth, when there is no one who gets reborn?" This is an example of a question based on "annihilationist" point of view, the extreme of non-existence. Or, for example, when someone asks "what is it that enters nibbana?" - this is an example of eternalist-view question. No such ideas, no such questions and speculations just can't arise in a stream winner. Because he "got the point" .)

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Re: How common is stream entry?

Postby duckfiasco » Sun Jun 23, 2013 6:23 pm


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Mr Man
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Re: How common is stream entry?

Postby Mr Man » Sun Jun 23, 2013 6:38 pm


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mikenz66
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Re: How common is stream entry?

Postby mikenz66 » Sun Jun 23, 2013 7:01 pm


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Zom
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Re: How common is stream entry?

Postby Zom » Sun Jun 23, 2013 10:08 pm


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Mr Man
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Re: How common is stream entry?

Postby Mr Man » Sun Jun 23, 2013 10:30 pm

Well the realization could be something that develops and deepens (over time) and it could be a deepening in faith (see IanAnd's earlier post) rather than a moment of insight into the nature of self. Possibly the manifestation is not consistent.

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retrofuturist
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Re: How common is stream entry?

Postby retrofuturist » Sun Jun 23, 2013 10:54 pm

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Alex123
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Re: How common is stream entry?

Postby Alex123 » Sun Jun 23, 2013 11:09 pm

"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."


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