Anatta takes out metta

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
SarathW
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Re: Anatta takes out metta

Post by SarathW »

I think, Santa and Reflection gave a very good answer except I do not support the idea that you should drop the Anatta idea for even for a moment.
I had a similar problem like yours when I first learned about Anatta. Through practice and investigation I overcame this problem.
Now I have compassion for beings with five aggregate, as I understand that the five aggregate is the result of their past Kamma.
:)
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
barcsimalsi
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Re: Anatta takes out metta

Post by barcsimalsi »

The problem i'm facing is not illwill, i can easily be at peace by contemplating anatta alone. But the anatta view is somehow blocking my compassionate response to other beings. For example when i red the news about muslim got slaughtered in Burma or buddhist got killed in Bangla, the sympathy generated isn't as strong as before but it is not that i had illwill to the victims.

When considering suffering is simply a condition of vedana which is conditioned and not-self, the mind tend to pay very little attention to its content. It is not hard to make a simple wish like "may every beings be happy", but the deep sympathy and sincerity seems lost or weaken with anatta in mind.

Yet, if i gonna follow reflection's advice of dropping the anatta notion, it is likely my mind will easily be disturbed by other people's problem and even my own problem.

Perhaps i was getting the wrong idea about anatta so the whole thing is up for more revision.
SarathW
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Re: Anatta takes out metta

Post by SarathW »

When I read the news about muslim got slaughtered in Burma or buddhist got killed in Bangladesh, I have sympathy for both Buddhist and Muslims.
This news (in fact any news) does not bother me because I can’t do anything about this.
This sort of problems was their even in Buddha’s time.
However if my close friend who is a Buddhist try to slaughter a Muslim, I would try to stop it with the compassion for my friend and the victim.
Anatta does not mean to say that there is no five aggregate. But the five aggregate is subject to Anicca,Dukkha and Aanatta. :juggling: :)

PS: You have to juggle three balls but don't drop any!
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
pegembara
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Re: Anatta takes out metta

Post by pegembara »

barcsimalsi wrote:Recently i notice my compassion is becoming lesser which i suspect is a result from contemplating anatta. I'm not easily touch by the news of death and misery like before. Although i felt more equanimous and happy this way, i had some sense of uneasiness that this stone cold hearted attitude is turning me into a more inconsiderate person which will affect my compassionate actions to those who were close to me.

I tried contemplating metta but it doesn't work as the not-self view will interfere which goes like this:
"every beings is made up of 5 aggregates and they are all not-self so why must i waste my time cultivating metta towards those impermanent aggregates."


Appreciate any opinion and advice.
"every beings is made up of 5 aggregates and they are all not-self so why must i waste my time cultivating metta towards those impermanent aggregates." is just another view!

This is what should be done
By one who is skilled in goodness
And who knows the path of peace:
Let them be able and upright,
Straightforward and gentle in speech,
Humble and not conceited,
Contented and easily satisfied,
Unburdened with duties and frugal in their ways.
Peaceful and calm, and wise and skillful,
Not proud and demanding in nature.
Let them not do the slightest thing
That the wise would later reprove,
Wishing: In gladness and in safety,
May all beings be at ease....


By not holding to fixed vews,
The pure-hearted one, having clarity of vision,
Being freed from all sense-desires,
Is not born again into this world.

Karaniya Metta Sutta
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.
barcsimalsi
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Re: Anatta takes out metta

Post by barcsimalsi »

SarathW wrote:When I read the news about muslim got slaughtered in Burma or buddhist got killed in Bangladesh, I have sympathy for both Buddhist and Muslims.
This news (in fact any news) does not bother me because I can’t do anything about this.
So it is like pity, make a good wish then let go of the whole thing in fast forward. But without bothered by it, how could you possibly feel their suffering and cultivate enough metta?
barcsimalsi
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Re: Anatta takes out metta

Post by barcsimalsi »

pegembara wrote:
"every beings is made up of 5 aggregates and they are all not-self so why must i waste my time cultivating metta towards those impermanent aggregates." is just another view!

This is what should be done
By one who is skilled in goodness
And who knows the path of peace:
Let them be able and upright,
Straightforward and gentle in speech,
Humble and not conceited,
Contented and easily satisfied,
Unburdened with duties and frugal in their ways.
Peaceful and calm, and wise and skillful,
Not proud and demanding in nature.
Let them not do the slightest thing
That the wise would later reprove,
Wishing: In gladness and in safety,
May all beings be at ease....


By not holding to fixed vews,
The pure-hearted one, having clarity of vision,
Being freed from all sense-desires,
Is not born again into this world.

Karaniya Metta Sutta
Is it not that view that is helping us to clear our misunderstanding towards the real phenomena?
SarathW
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Re: Anatta takes out metta

Post by SarathW »

All in this world (including news readers) except Arhants will suffer.
Even I suffer, because I am not an Arahant.
I know that you suffer too. (assuming that you are not an Arahant)
With that knowledge I will extend my loving kindness and compassion towards you.
So beings who do not understand Dhamma will always suffer irrespective of Muslim or Buddhist.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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lyndon taylor
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Re: Anatta takes out metta

Post by lyndon taylor »

Just as a part of us in not made up of the 5 aggregates, so is a part of everyone else, and every sentient being, not made up of the 5 aggregates, so we should have compassion for all sentient beings, perhaps not so much compassion for non sentient things.
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community, sincerely former monk John

http://trickleupeconomictheory.blogspot.com/
barcsimalsi
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Re: Anatta takes out metta

Post by barcsimalsi »

Mental suffering is a conditional feeling aggregate. If one does not regard the feeling aggregate as self, how can one think one suffers?
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lyndon taylor
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Re: Anatta takes out metta

Post by lyndon taylor »

Understanding that your feelings of suffering are not self, does not stop you from feeling suffering. Understanding that your possessions are not self, does not stop you from having possessions, Understanding that your body is not self does not stop you from having a body. Understanding that your thoughts are not self does not stop you from having thoughts, etc etc.

Which is not to say that realizing all these things would not reduce your level of suffering......
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community, sincerely former monk John

http://trickleupeconomictheory.blogspot.com/
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PadmaPhala
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Re: Anatta takes out metta

Post by PadmaPhala »

anatman and maitri are not mutually exclusive.
barcsimalsi
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Re: Anatta takes out metta

Post by barcsimalsi »

One more thing i don't understand about cultivating metta-karuna is when we wish others to be good, isn't that consider an expectation which defeat the main dhamma practice of accepting the way things are?

Surely it feels happy to wish and have everyone in good form but the state of mind that was expecting something positive rather than just let things go and make peace with the present is somehow counterproductive to the practice, at least this is how i see.

Please address any mistake.

Thanks again everyone.
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Aloka
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Re: Anatta takes out metta

Post by Aloka »

barcsimalsi wrote:One more thing i don't understand about cultivating metta-karuna is when we wish others to be good, isn't that consider an expectation which defeat the main dhamma practice of accepting the way things are?

Surely it feels happy to wish and have everyone in good form but the state of mind that was expecting something positive rather than just let things go and make peace with the present is somehow counterproductive to the practice, at least this is how i see.

Please address any mistake.

Thanks again everyone.
I think the cultivation of metta and karuna towards others isn't about wanting anything from them. It helps us to develop a more accepting and peaceful mind ourselves - and this is very beneficial for mental stability and practice in the here and now.

This benevolent attitude in oneself can be summed up in these verses from the Amaravati Chanting Book:

Reflections on Universal Well Being

"May I abide in well-being,
in freedom from affliction,
in freedom from hostility,
in freedom from ill-will,
in freedom from anxiety,
and may I maintain well-being in myself.

May everyone abide in well-being,
in freedom from affliction,
in freedom from hostility,
in freedom from ill-will,
in freedom from anxiety,
and may they maintain well-being in themselves.

May all beings be released from all suffering
and may they not be parted from
the good fortune they have attained.

When they act upon intention
all beings are the owners of their action,
and inherit its results.

Their future is born from such action,
companion to such action,
and its results will be their home.

All actions with intention,
be they skillful or harmful;
of such acts, they will be the heirs."

Additionally, the sections: "Lesson 4 The Giving and Receiving Heart" and "Lesson 5 Wisdom and Compassion" from "Finding the Missing Peace" by Ajahn Amaro might be helpful.

https://www.abhayagiri.org/books/findin ... sing-peace

.
barcsimalsi
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Re: Anatta takes out metta

Post by barcsimalsi »

Aloka wrote: I think the cultivation of metta and karuna towards others isn't about wanting anything from them.
That was absolutely right. But my post refers to wanting something for them. Regardless of expecting something for others or oneself, It still looks like a wishful thinking that brings the mind to the future.
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Aloka
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Re: Anatta takes out metta

Post by Aloka »

barcsimalsi wrote: It still looks like a wishful thinking that brings the mind to the future.
That shouldn't be happening because its not about speculating about how well being is going to happen in the future, its about being with the breath and the practice of generating metta in the present. When the practice is ended the mind just relaxes in metta and goodwill beyond concepts.
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