YOU CANNOT POST. OUR WEB HOSTING COMPANY DECIDED TO MOVE THE SERVER TO ANOTHER LOCATION. IN THE MEANTIME, YOU CAN VIEW THIS VERSION WHICH DOES NOT ALLOW POSTING AND WILL NOT SAVE ANYTHING YOU DO ONCE THE OTHER SERVER GOES ONLINE.

I'm confused about the different meditation methods - Dhamma Wheel

I'm confused about the different meditation methods

General discussion of issues related to Theravada Meditation, e.g. meditation postures, developing a regular sitting practice, skillfully relating to difficulties and hindrances, etc.
User avatar
puthujjana
Posts: 106
Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2009 8:13 am
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Contact:

I'm confused about the different meditation methods

Postby puthujjana » Sat Jul 25, 2009 12:16 pm

"Once you understand anatta, then the burden of life is gone. You’ll be at peace with the world. When we see beyond self, we no longer cling to happiness and we can truly be happy."

User avatar
Macavity
Posts: 110
Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2009 11:36 am
Location: Thailand

Re: I'm confused about the different meditation methods

Postby Macavity » Sat Jul 25, 2009 1:37 pm


User avatar
Ben
Posts: 18442
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:49 am
Location: kanamaluka

Re: I'm confused about the different meditation methods

Postby Ben » Sat Jul 25, 2009 1:43 pm

Greetings Putthujana
I am not surprised that you are confused. I recommend that you find yourself a teacher that you have some confidence in and try one particular method to the exclusion of all others for a year (at least). I also recommend attending residential meditation retreats that will help you develop some depth of experience and to establish yourself with the practice.
This I think will be more beneficial than a smorgasbord approach.
Kind regards

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

User avatar
David N. Snyder
Site Admin
Posts: 10648
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:15 am
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
Contact:

Re: I'm confused about the different meditation methods

Postby David N. Snyder » Sat Jul 25, 2009 2:48 pm

Image




User avatar
Jechbi
Posts: 1268
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 3:38 am
Contact:

Re: I'm confused about the different meditation methods

Postby Jechbi » Sat Jul 25, 2009 3:12 pm


.e.
Posts: 21
Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2009 2:05 am

Re: I'm confused about the different meditation methods

Postby .e. » Sat Jul 25, 2009 3:23 pm

As you can see, your thoughts have thrown you off your meditation object like a bull throwing off a cowboy. So noting or mantras can help to get your thoughts inline with your intention. That is, if you have little control over discursive thought, then enlist it to help. Once that happens a deepening in concentration will occur and samatha will ensue. Instead of being afraid of it, enjoy it! Buddha felt that this was a pleasantness that was wholesome. If you can enjoy it, then maybe this will help foster your practice i.e. you will want to do it more. So, in the same way you enlisted thought, you can enlist pleasant wholesome sensations. If via samatha you get super duper concentration and stange things start happening then seek out a jhana teacher and use the concentration in the same way you used thought and pleasant sensation, if not, no big deal. If you get this far and are working on other areas of the path, then vipassana will take care of itself. Modern day vipassana meditation is after all a misnomer as one cannot practice vipassana (insight), it arises if the 8-path factors are developed and come to fruition.

User avatar
Jechbi
Posts: 1268
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 3:38 am
Contact:

Re: I'm confused about the different meditation methods

Postby Jechbi » Sat Jul 25, 2009 3:28 pm


User avatar
clw_uk
Posts: 4655
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 2:36 am

Re: I'm confused about the different meditation methods

Postby clw_uk » Sat Jul 25, 2009 4:05 pm

Is was in same position as you were when i began meditation, i think most go through this



For myself i worked through different methods until i found one that seemed to fit with my understanding of said meditation and which started to work effectively



I see your already doing this so my advice would be to keep at it, also having a sense of fun while doing it




metta
Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken

User avatar
Kare
Posts: 751
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2009 10:58 am
Location: Norway
Contact:

Re: I'm confused about the different meditation methods

Postby Kare » Sat Jul 25, 2009 6:30 pm

You have already got very good advice from several persons here. I just would like to add a quote from Jack Kornfield, 'Living Buddhist Masters':

A Western monk once asked permission of his forest teacher to journey to Burma to try the intensive meditation systems of several other well-known teachers. Permission was readily granted. After several years he returned to his first teacher.

"What did you learn?" the teacher inquired.

"Nothing," answered the monk.

"Nothing?"

"Nothing that is not already around, that was not right here before I left."

"And what have you experienced?"

"Many teachers and many meditation systems," the monk answered. "Yet, the more deeply I penetrated the Dharma, the more I realized there was no need to go anywyere else to practice."

"Ah, yes," replied his teacher. "I could have told you that before you left, but you could not have understood."
Mettāya,
Kåre

User avatar
acinteyyo
Posts: 1684
Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2009 9:48 am
Location: Bavaria / Germany

Re: I'm confused about the different meditation methods

Postby acinteyyo » Sat Jul 25, 2009 8:26 pm

:goodpost:
Thag 1.20. Ajita - I do not fear death; nor do I long for life. I’ll lay down this body, aware and mindful.

User avatar
Kare
Posts: 751
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2009 10:58 am
Location: Norway
Contact:

Re: I'm confused about the different meditation methods

Postby Kare » Sat Jul 25, 2009 8:50 pm

This is what I call real serendipity! I was searching for this quote from the Tipitaka, and could not remember where to find it. After spending half an hour leafing through files and books, I felt I had to relax a bit and have a look at The Dhamma Wheel. And there I found just the quote I was looking for, in your signature:

Pubbe cāhaṃ bhikkhave, etarahi ca dukkhañceva paññāpemi, dukkhassa ca nirodhaṃ. (M.22)
Both formerly, monks, and now, it is just suffering that I make known and the ending of suffering.

Wonderful! Thanks a lot! :anjali:
Mettāya,
Kåre

User avatar
kc2dpt
Posts: 957
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 3:48 pm

Re: I'm confused about the different meditation methods

Postby kc2dpt » Sun Jul 26, 2009 12:02 am

puthujjana,

Just pick one. Whichever one you like. Stick with it for a while until you've either realized Nibbana or you know you've reached the limits of that practice. Only then look for something different.

Looking to resolve these debates before you get into it will just keep you from ever getting into it.
- Peter


vitellius
Posts: 190
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 3:21 pm

Re: I'm confused about the different meditation methods

Postby vitellius » Sun Jul 26, 2009 12:10 am

This opinion might be "heretical" even to "Modern Theravada", but
- I am not sure if any arahants are present on Earth now,
- according to my understanding methods of different Theravadin teachers bring to different results
- probably "stages of enlightenment" and "jhanas" of at least some modern Theravada traditions are different from ones of Buddha

What can we do given these assumptions?

Buddha proposed two criteria for evaluation of doctrines and practices, - first, own experience of what is beneficial and what is not, and, second, compliance with dhamma-vinaya (i.e. suttas and vinaya).

For the first criterion we need some indicators to tell beneficial from beneficial. One may take 37 factors of enlightenment as a base and ask oneself - which factors are well-developed and wich are pure in me? Development of which factors is most urgent for my situation? With which practices I may develop it? What positive and what negative results did this particular practice brought to me?.. and so on.

For the second criterion academic research done by practicing buddhists (e.g. Rupert Gethin, Bhikkhu Bodhi, Bhikkhu Analayo) I consider most reliable.

.e.
Posts: 21
Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2009 2:05 am

Re: I'm confused about the different meditation methods

Postby .e. » Sun Jul 26, 2009 3:11 pm


User avatar
cooran
Posts: 8502
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2009 11:32 pm
Location: Queensland, Australia

Re: I'm confused about the different meditation methods

Postby cooran » Sun Jul 26, 2009 7:09 pm

---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

User avatar
zavk
Posts: 1161
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2009 12:04 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: I'm confused about the different meditation methods

Postby zavk » Mon Jul 27, 2009 6:30 am

Hi Puthujjana,

This appears to be be a common problem that many people encounter when they are attempting to establish a meditation practice. In reading about all the different approaches/traditions, I'm sure you've read about the Five Hindrances, two of which are restlessness and doubt? In my opinion, while it is good to test out different approaches to the dhamma, it can sometimes slide into a kind of:

- restlessness: whereby one is never satisfied with the practice at hand and is always looking for something 'better'

- doubt whereby one is always questioning the teacher's and one's own abilities

Either way, one is hampered from progressing on the path. I have certainly experienced this myself and I'm sure others have experienced this too. I would follow the advice offered by Ben, Peter, and Chris. Try to stick with one approach for now. There might come a time when that approach no longer works for you. If that happens, then switch to something else. The time spent on that approach wouldn't have been 'wasted' as such, for you'd have cultivated some discipline and patience--always a good thing. You might even come to learn a thing or two about doubt, restlessness and all that.

All the best.
With metta,
zavk

rowyourboat
Posts: 1952
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 5:29 pm
Location: London, UK

Re: I'm confused about the different meditation methods

Postby rowyourboat » Tue Jul 28, 2009 1:40 pm

as for your specific questions even 'dry' vipassana meditators attain jhana- after many years of practice (if they practice strongly) even though they might not emphasize it. different people may start out differently but (should) end up in the same place, like stream merging when closer to the sea - but their descriptions will be different. So better to start somewhere- with a real teacher- if you are practicing well, do one meditation method upto 2 years or so and until you have no further gain from it.

I think it helps to remember that the end result is samadhi-one pointedness and insight-panna. No teacher would dispute this. You might add the divine abidings and sila/morality into this as well.

It mgiht also help to keep in mind that the final authority is the dhamma-vinaya as in the pali suttas. If the buddha has mentioned it- nothing wrong in doing it- we are doing all this to the one and same mind- so it all helps in an interrelated manner.

or another way of looking at it - if you are doing away with craving, aversion and delusion you are on the right path whatever method you are practicing.

with metta
With Metta

Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha

User avatar
puthujjana
Posts: 106
Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2009 8:13 am
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Contact:

Re: I'm confused about the different meditation methods

Postby puthujjana » Sat Aug 08, 2009 8:25 pm

"Once you understand anatta, then the burden of life is gone. You’ll be at peace with the world. When we see beyond self, we no longer cling to happiness and we can truly be happy."

kannada
Posts: 94
Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2009 8:35 am

Re: I'm confused about the different meditation methods

Postby kannada » Sun Aug 09, 2009 11:54 am

Just a view - nothing more...

PeterB
Posts: 3909
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2009 12:35 pm

Re: I'm confused about the different meditation methods

Postby PeterB » Mon Aug 10, 2009 11:16 am



Return to “General Theravāda Meditation”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 29 guests

Google Saffron, Theravada Search Engine