Q re kamma as action versus effect

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Q re kamma as action versus effect

Postby Fluke » Fri Jun 28, 2013 3:46 pm

Hi guys

I have a question about kamma, and let me first say I know it's a complicated subject, and I admit I know little about it.

I believe that kamma means action.

So, am I right in thinking, any action I make, has an equal reaction in response.

If I insult someone, I will be insulted back, is that right?

I realise that intention comes into it, and also how one reacts to his/her own action, but I don't think this is relevant to my question.

Anyway I will get on with my question...

It seems to me that the "action" is less important than the "effect" it has.

ie you could insult one person, and she could brush it off as nothing. You could insult another person in the same way, and he is so devastated that he becomes depressed over it.

That is, the one same action can cause different amounts of suffering.

So, isn't it the "effect" of one's action that is important, not the actual action itself?
--
Peace
Fluke

Ho! ye who suffer! know
Ye suffer from yourselves. None else compels,
None other holds you that ye live and die,
And whirl upon the wheel, and hug and kiss
Its spokes of agony,
Its tire of tears, its nave of nothingness.
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Re: Q re kamma as action versus effect

Postby cooran » Fri Jun 28, 2013 8:49 pm

Hello Fluke,

I would you suggest you read this booklet, and then come back to the discussion with any questions.(the result of action is called Vipaka, not Kamma).

Good, Evil and Beyond - Kamma in the Buddha's Teaching

http://www.buddhanet.net/cmdsg/kamma.htm#Contents

With metta,
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---
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Re: Q re kamma as action versus effect

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Fri Jun 28, 2013 9:02 pm

Fluke wrote:It seems to me that the "action" is less important than the "effect" it has.

ie you could insult one person, and she could brush it off as nothing. You could insult another person in the same way, and he is so devastated that he becomes depressed over it.

That is, the one same action can cause different amounts of suffering.

So, isn't it the "effect" of one's action that is important, not the actual action itself?

It doesn't work like that. If you insult a bad person they might kill you, so the immediate effect might be serious, but it is far worse to insult a virtuous person. A saintly person won't even be upset or angry with you, but will only show compassion. However, insulting a saint has serious consequences for the future. As a consequence of your action, you may suffer throughout many existences, being insulted without by others, although completely innocent of any fault.

Insulting a wicked person, e.g. by calling a thief or a liar as "Thief, liar," is truthful speech, though still not skilful or wholesome, unless done with the intention of correcting their behaviour. Even then, they most likely won't appreciate your good advice if given without being asked, or at the wrong time.

An Introduction to Kamma
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Re: Q re kamma as action versus effect

Postby Fluke » Fri Jun 28, 2013 9:48 pm

cooran wrote:Hello Fluke,

I would you suggest you read this booklet, and then come back to the discussion with any questions.(the result of action is called Vipaka, not Kamma).

Good, Evil and Beyond - Kamma in the Buddha's Teaching

http://www.buddhanet.net/cmdsg/kamma.htm#Contents

With metta,
Chris


Hm you answer my post with - read this booklet?

And then end it by saying "with metta?"

Hm ok dude. No thanks.
--
Peace
Fluke

Ho! ye who suffer! know
Ye suffer from yourselves. None else compels,
None other holds you that ye live and die,
And whirl upon the wheel, and hug and kiss
Its spokes of agony,
Its tire of tears, its nave of nothingness.
Fluke
 
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 4:47 pm

Re: Q re kamma as action versus effect

Postby tiltbillings » Fri Jun 28, 2013 9:54 pm

Fluke wrote:
cooran wrote:Hello Fluke,

I would you suggest you read this booklet, and then come back to the discussion with any questions.(the result of action is called Vipaka, not Kamma).

Good, Evil and Beyond - Kamma in the Buddha's Teaching

http://www.buddhanet.net/cmdsg/kamma.htm#Contents

With metta,
Chris


Hm you answer my post with - read this booklet?

And then end it by saying "with metta?"

Hm ok dude. No thanks.
The request that you, for further information for discussion, read a short booklet is not unreasonable. I am sure that the information was offered with genuine concern. Your choice, however, to do as you please.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

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Re: Q re kamma as action versus effect

Postby Kamran » Sat Jun 29, 2013 3:19 am

The Bodhisatta analyzed the cycle of kamma, result, and reaction into the following terms: kamma is intention; its result, feeling; the reaction to that feeling, perception and attention — i.e., attention to perceptions about the feeling — which together form the views that color further intentions. If perception and attention are clouded by ignorance, craving, and clinging, they lead to stress and further ignorance, forming the basis for intentions that keep the cycle in motion.


http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... index.html
When this concentration is thus developed, thus well developed by you, then wherever you go, you will go in comfort. Wherever you stand, you will stand in comfort. Wherever you sit, you will sit in comfort. Wherever you lie down, you will lie down in comfort.
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Re: Q re kamma as action versus effect

Postby Sylvester » Sun Jun 30, 2013 4:32 am

Fluke wrote:So, am I right in thinking, any action I make, has an equal reaction in response.

If I insult someone, I will be insulted back, is that right?


Not according to a very standard teaching in the suttas which say -

"Monks, for anyone who says, 'In whatever way a person makes kamma, that is how it is experienced,' there is no living of the holy life, there is no opportunity for the right ending of stress. But for anyone who says, 'When a person makes kamma to be felt in such & such a way, that is how its result is experienced,' there is the living of the holy life, there is the opportunity for the right ending of stress.

AN 3.99
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