MN 10. Satipaṭṭhāna Sutta

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Re: MN 10. Satipaṭṭhāna Sutta

Postby rowyourboat » Sun Jul 26, 2009 8:17 am

things to do before doing satipatthana

§ 27. Uttiya: It would be good, lord, if the Blessed One would teach
me the Dhamma in brief so that, having heard the Dhamma from the
Blessed One, I might dwell alone, secluded, heedful, ardent, &
resolute.

The Buddha: In that case, Uttiya, you should purify what is most
basic with regard to skillful mental qualities. And what is the basis
of skillful mental qualities? Well-purified virtue & views made
straight
. Then, when your virtue is well-purified and your views made
straight, in dependence on virtue, established in virtue, you should
develop the four frames of reference... Then, when in dependence on
virtue, relying on virtue, you develop the four frames of reference,
you will go beyond the realm of Death.
— SN 47.16
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Re: MN 10. Satipaṭṭhāna Sutta

Postby rowyourboat » Sun Jul 26, 2009 8:19 am

reducing the five hindrances (right effort) before satipattana and how it leads to jhana (right concentration)

§ 33. Mindfulness & Concentration. Having abandoned the five
hindrances — imperfections of awareness that weaken discernment — the
monk remains focused on the body in & of itself — ardent, alert, &
mindful — putting aside greed & distress with reference to the world.
He remains focused on feelings... mind... mental qualities in & of
themselves — ardent, alert, & mindful — putting aside greed &
distress with reference to the world. Just as if an elephant trainer
were to plant a large post in the ground and were to bind a forest
elephant to it by the neck in order to break it of its forest habits,
its forest memories & resolves, its distraction, fatigue, & fever
over leaving the forest, to make it delight in the town and to
inculcate in it habits congenial to human beings; in the same way,
these four frames of reference are bindings for the awareness of the
disiciple of the noble ones, to break him of his household habits,
his household memories & resolves, his distraction, fatigue, & fever
over leaving the household life, for the attainment of the right
method and the realization of Unbinding.

Then the Tathagata trains him further: 'Come, monk, remain focused on
the body in & of itself, but do not think any thoughts connected with
the body. Remain focused on feelings in & of themselves, but do not
think any thoughts connected with feelings. Remain focused on the
mind in & of itself, but do not think any thoughts connected with
mind. Remain focused on mental qualities in & of themselves, but do
not think any thoughts connected with mental qualities.' With the
stilling of directed thoughts & evaluations, he enters the second
jhana...
— MN 125
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Re: MN 10. Satipaṭṭhāna Sutta

Postby rowyourboat » Sun Jul 26, 2009 8:21 am

mindfulness of the body (including the more difficult ones I suppose) are essential for enlightenment

§ 42. Whoever pervades the great ocean with his awareness encompasses
whatever rivulets flow down into the ocean. In the same way, whoever
develops & pursues mindfulness immersed in the body encompasses
whatever skillful qualities are on the side of clear knowing.
When one thing is practiced & pursued, the body is calmed, the mind
is calmed, thinking & evaluating are stilled, and all qualities on
the side of clear knowing go to the culmination of their development.
Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body.
When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear
knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, obsessions are
uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness
immersed in the body.

Those who do not taste mindfulness of the body do not taste the
Deathless. Those who taste mindfulness of the body taste the
Deathless.
Those who are heedless of mindfulness of the body are heedless of the
Deathless.
Those who comprehend mindfulness of the body comprehend the Deathless.
— AN 1.225,
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Re: MN 10. Satipaṭṭhāna Sutta

Postby rowyourboat » Sun Jul 26, 2009 8:24 am

steadying your mind, concentrating it useful for satipatthana practice

§ 36. Directing & Not Directing the Mind. Ananda, if a monk or nun
remains with mind well established in the four frames of reference,
he/she may be expected to realize greater-than-ever distinction.
There is the case of a monk who remains focused on the body in & of
itself — ardent, alert, & mindful — putting aside greed & distress
with reference to the world. As he remains thus focused on the body
in & of itself, a fever based on the body arises within his body, or
there is sluggishness in his awareness, or his mind becomes scattered
externally. He should then direct his mind to any inspiring theme
[Comm: such as recollection of the Buddha]. As his mind is directed
to any inspiring theme, delight arises within him. In one who feels
delight, rapture arises. In one whose mind is enraptured, the body
grows serene. His body serene, he feels pleasure. As he feels
pleasure, his mind grows concentrated. He reflects, 'I have attained
the aim to which my mind was directed. Let me withdraw [my mind from
the inspiring theme].' He withdraws & engages neither in directed
thought nor in evaluation. He discerns, 'I am not thinking or
evaluating. I am inwardly mindful & at ease.'
Furthermore, he remains focused on feelings... mind... mental
qualities in & of themselves — ardent, alert, & mindful — putting
aside greed & distress with reference to the world. As he remains
thus focused on mental qualities in & of themselves, a fever based on
mental qualities arises within his body, or there is sluggishness in
his awareness, or his mind becomes scattered externally. He should
then direct his mind to any inspiring theme. As his mind is directed
to any inspiring theme, delight arises within him. In one who feels
delight, rapture arises. In one whose mind is enraptured, the body
grows serene. His body serene, he is sensitive to pleasure. As he
feels pleasure, his mind grows concentrated. He reflects, 'I have
attained the aim to which my mind was directed. Let me withdraw.' He
withdraws & engages neither in directed thought nor in evaluation. He
discerns, 'I am not thinking or evaluating. I am inwardly mindful &
at ease.'

This, Ananda, is development based on directing. And what is
development based on not directing? A monk, when not directing his
mind to external things, discerns, 'My mind is not directed to
external things. It is not attentive to what is in front or behind.
It is released & undirected. And furthermore I remain focused on the
body in & of itself. I am ardent, alert, mindful, & at ease.'
When not directing his mind to external things, he discerns, 'My mind
is not directed to external things. It is not attentive to what is in
front or behind. It is released & undirected. And furthermore I
remain focused on feelings... mind... mental qualities in & of
themselves. I am ardent, alert, mindful, & at ease.'
This, Ananda, is development based on not directing.
Now, Ananda, I have taught you development based on directing and
development based on not directing. What a teacher should do out of
compassion for his disciples, seeking their welfare, that I have done
for you. Over there are [places to sit at] the foot of trees. Over
there are empty dwellings. Practice jhana, Ananda. Do not be
heedless. Do not be remorseful in the future. That is our instruction
to you all.
— SN 47.10
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Re: MN 10. Satipaṭṭhāna Sutta

Postby rowyourboat » Sun Jul 26, 2009 8:32 am

knowing the best satipattana meditation to use at any given time

"Suppose that there is a foolish, inexperienced, unskillful cook who has presented a king or a king's minister with various kinds of curry: mainly sour, mainly bitter, mainly peppery, mainly sweet, alkaline or non-alkaline, salty or non-salty. He does not take note of1 his master, thinking, 'Today my master likes this curry, or he reaches out for that curry, or he takes a lot of this curry, or he praises that curry. Today my master likes mainly sour curry... Today my master likes mainly bitter curry... mainly peppery curry... mainly sweet curry... alkaline curry... non-alkaline curry... salty curry... Today my master likes non-salty curry, or he reaches out for non-salty curry, or he takes a lot of non-salty curry, or he praises non-salty curry.' As a result, he is not rewarded with clothing or wages or gifts. Why is that? Because the foolish, inexperienced, unskillful cook does not pick up on the theme of his own master.

"In the same way, there are cases where a foolish, inexperienced, unskillful monk remains focused on the body in & of itself — ardent, alert, & mindful — putting aside greed & distress with reference to the world. As he remains thus focused on the body in & of itself, his mind does not become concentrated, his defilements2 are not abandoned. He does not take note of that fact.3 He remains focused on feelings in & of themselves... the mind in & of itself... mental qualities in & of themselves — ardent, alert, & mindful — putting aside greed & distress with reference to the world. As he remains thus focused on mental qualities in & of themselves, his mind does not become concentrated, his defilements are not abandoned. He does not take note of that fact. As a result, he is not rewarded with a pleasant abiding here & now, nor with mindfulness & alertness. Why is that? Because the foolish, inexperienced, unskillful monk does not take note of his own mind.4

"Now suppose that there is a wise, experienced, skillful cook who has presented a king or a king's minister with various kinds of curry: mainly sour, mainly bitter, mainly peppery, mainly sweet, alkaline or non-alkaline, salty or non-salty. He takes note of his master, thinking, 'Today my master likes this curry, or he reaches out for that curry, or he takes a lot of this curry or he praises that curry. Today my master likes mainly sour curry... Today my master likes mainly bitter curry... mainly peppery curry... mainly sweet curry... alkaline curry... non-alkaline curry... salty curry... Today my master likes non-salty curry, or he reaches out for non-salty curry, or he takes a lot of non-salty curry, or he praises non-salty curry.' As a result, he is rewarded with clothing, wages, & gifts. Why is that? Because the wise, experienced, skillful cook picks up on the theme of his own master.

"In the same way, there are cases where a wise, experienced, skillful monk remains focused on the body in & of itself... feelings in & of themselves... the mind in & of itself... mental qualities in & of themselves — ardent, alert, & mindful — putting aside greed & distress with reference to the world. As he remains thus focused on mental qualities in & of themselves, his mind becomes concentrated, his defilements are abandoned. He takes note of that fact. As a result, he is rewarded with a pleasant abiding here & now, together with mindfulness & alertness. Why is that? Because the wise, experienced, skillful monk picks up on the theme of his own mind."
SN 47.8
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Re: MN 10. Satipaṭṭhāna Sutta

Postby rowyourboat » Sun Jul 26, 2009 8:35 am

'putting aside greed & distress with reference to the world' -is something to start off with and also the end result- there is sutta not found on the internet (SN) where the buddha visits a lay person and he says he has put aside greed and distress with reference to the world using satipattana- the buddha proclaims him a non-returner.
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Re: MN 10. Satipaṭṭhāna Sutta

Postby Jechbi » Sun Jul 26, 2009 10:56 am

rowyourboat wrote:there is sutta not found on the internet (SN) where the buddha visits a lay person and he says he has put aside greed and distress with reference to the world using satipattana- the buddha proclaims him a non-returner.

Can you provide a more specific reference than just SN? Thanks.
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Uncover, then, what is concealed,
Lest it be soddened by the rain.
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Re: MN 10. Satipaṭṭhāna Sutta

Postby Macavity » Sun Jul 26, 2009 12:11 pm

Jechbi wrote:Can you provide a more specific reference than just SN? Thanks.


I think he probably means the Sirivaddhasutta. It is somewhere in the SN's Mahavagga. Sorry I can't be more specific.
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Re: MN 10. Satipaṭṭhāna Sutta

Postby Ben » Sun Jul 26, 2009 1:54 pm

Dear members

Macavity wrote:
Jechbi wrote:Can you provide a more specific reference than just SN? Thanks.


I think he probably means the Sirivaddhasutta. It is somewhere in the SN's Mahavagga. Sorry I can't be more specific.


In future, please provide traceable citations for all scriptural and commentarial literature quotations. Please remember that this is a sutta study group.
Thank you for your cooperation.

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Re: MN 10. Satipaṭṭhāna Sutta

Postby Cittasanto » Sun Jul 26, 2009 5:49 pm

Hi Row,
what is with all the quotes? are you trying to get at something specific or something else? this is a study group and discussion is hard with allot of quotes with no aim to anyone or direction in a particular strand in the discussion, or are you just throwing out several discussions?
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
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Re: MN 10. Satipaṭṭhāna Sutta

Postby Cittasanto » Sun Jul 26, 2009 5:56 pm

rowyourboat wrote:there is growth and development in the faculty of sati/mindfulness
at an early weak level it is swayed by everything which is going on- one cannot even say that the faculty (indirya) of mindfulness exists here - only the potential of it
at the next level we can be aware of things with out getting caught up in it -some of the time at least- here there is space to look on with wisdom, patience
at even higher levels of it's development it can weaken defilements- I read somewhere that it was equivalent to dropping a drop of water on a hot saucepan at very high levels- maybe it could be said to be one of the 'powers' (bala) here

degrees of development could also be explained in terms of degree of detail detected by sati and/or by duration it can be maintained without dropping it

note that the Buddha calls the four foundations of mindfulness the path to the purification of beings, getting rid of evil states etc so it must be able to do this either via samadhi and/or panna that it generates.


Hi Row
I am assuming this is for me directly with our little back and forth discussion going on?
I agree with the last 'note' and the line before, although I would not make the distinction if someone asked me how to develop satipatthana practice, I would just say there is the breath, watch it. and I do find it difficult to tell how the first section here disagrees with my view that mindfulness is reactive, against your statement that it isn't
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Re: MN 10. Satipaṭṭhāna Sutta

Postby Cittasanto » Sun Jul 26, 2009 6:05 pm

just curious what is everyones prefered method mentioned in the satipatthana sutta? (besides Anapanasati), and what method do you use for this practice is it commentary or sutta based ?
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Re: MN 10. Satipaṭṭhāna Sutta

Postby David N. Snyder » Sun Jul 26, 2009 6:17 pm

Hi Manapa,

I love this chart from Ven. Soma:

Image

So I have found the mental contents or Dhamma objects to a good meditation for me.
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Re: MN 10. Satipaṭṭhāna Sutta

Postby Macavity » Sun Jul 26, 2009 7:25 pm

Manapa wrote:just curious what is everyones prefered method mentioned in the satipatthana sutta?


These are my four preferred modes:

Kayanupassana: When lying down, he understands: ‘I am lying down.’

Vedananupassana: When feeling a worldly pleasant feeling, he understands: ‘I feel a worldly pleasant feeling.’

Cittanupassana: He understands mind affected by lust as mind affected by lust.

Dhammanupassana: There being sensual desire in him, he understands: ‘There is sensual desire in me.’

and what method do you use for this practice


I mindfully lie down in the jacuzzi or on the beach. So that's kayanupassana taken care of. If my girlfriend joins me then I'm mindful of the other stuff.

is it commentary or sutta based ?


No, just kilesa-based.
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Re: MN 10. Satipaṭṭhāna Sutta

Postby Cittasanto » Sun Jul 26, 2009 8:17 pm

TheDhamma wrote:Hi Manapa,

I love this chart from Ven. Soma:

Image

So I have found the mental contents or Dhamma objects to a good meditation for me.


I have seen this chart somewhere recently? or atleast something similar?

and then I realise it may of helped if I provided my preference!

the whole lot :tongue: it depends on the circumstances I am in.
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"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."
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Re: MN 10. Satipaṭṭhāna Sutta

Postby Cittasanto » Sun Jul 26, 2009 8:36 pm

Macavity wrote:
Manapa wrote:is it commentary or sutta based ?


No, just kilesa-based.


so is your practice based on what is said in the suttas or commentary?
or do the kilesas tell you this practice is how it is to be done?

PS mine above is from my understanding of the sutta and relevant suttas to the sections as found in the exploration (link below in signature)
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Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."
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Re: MN 10. Satipaṭṭhāna Sutta

Postby Cittasanto » Sun Jul 26, 2009 8:57 pm

oh and what methed do you use? please describe it, or link to the relevant close description
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
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Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."
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Re: MN 10. Satipaṭṭhāna Sutta

Postby mikenz66 » Mon Jul 27, 2009 4:36 am

Manapa wrote:I have seen this chart somewhere recently? or atleast something similar?

It's in the Commentary to the Sutta http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... wayof.html and in the Visuddhimagga.

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Re: MN 10. Satipaṭṭhāna Sutta

Postby rowyourboat » Mon Jul 27, 2009 3:32 pm

Hi Manapa
I wanted to include in this thread various relevant short suttas which would make the satipatthana sutta hopefully clearer. As for our back and forth, I have said all I can say and dont wish to comment on it any further. :smile:

Sorry for not quoting the specific sutta in this forum.

Good luck!

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Re: MN 10. Satipaṭṭhāna Sutta

Postby jcsuperstar » Mon Jul 27, 2009 9:06 pm

your quotes from other sutta seem on topic to me. so no prob
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