A contemporary analysis of the dukkha of avoidance

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BlackBird
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Re: A contemporary analysis of the dukkha of avoidance

Post by BlackBird »

I'm not sure if Craving can exactly equate to dukkha, given that craving is stated by the Buddha to be the cause of dukkha. If that is so we are left with no way out, for if what determines something is itself then is it not permanent? Retro I am aware you have read Nyanavira's work so I think it might come in handy in this situation, where he describes that a hetu/sankhara determines something else. Even Avijja isn't determined by the very same Avijja, but avijja in the immediecy is determined by avijja in the reflection upon such immediacy. So no sankhara has itself as it's sankhara in essence is what I am trying to illustrate. Even if you chose to ignore Ven Nyanavira's work on sankhara one still is left with the fact that the Four Noble Truths state that with craving as condition -> Dukkha.

Mind you I've still got a ways to go before I'm qualified to be making categorical statements in this department so please do not think that I'm talking with any degree of certainty :)

metta
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'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." - MN. 70 Kitagiri Sutta

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peteG
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Re: A contemporary analysis of the dukkha of avoidance

Post by peteG »

I’ve published a new entry to my blog – it is advice for people who need help looking other people in the eyes

http://mindfullasd.blogspot.com/2013/07 ... -eyes.html

Pete
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mikenz66
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Re: A contemporary analysis of the dukkha of avoidance

Post by mikenz66 »

Hi Pete,

Your blog is interesting, and makes some very good points. However the quotes you have there are not accurate.

See: http://www.fakebuddhaquotes.com/he-who- ... y-of-life/ for a discussion of this one:
“He who experiences the unity of life sees his own Self in all beings, and all beings in his own Self, and looks on everything with an impartial eye.”
:anjali:
Mike
peteG
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Re: A contemporary analysis of the dukkha of avoidance

Post by peteG »

You mean you can't trust everything on the internet? Thanks for the info, I changed it to the proper source
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retrofuturist
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Re: A contemporary analysis of the dukkha of avoidance

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings Pete,

This customised search engine might help you exclude some dodgy material from your future research...

Google Saffron
http://www.google.com/cse/home?cx=00545 ... cbjbznmwso

Metta,
Retro. :)
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Re: A contemporary analysis of the dukkha of avoidance

Post by peteG »

Here’s the latest post to my blog, it’s about communication:
http://mindfullasd.blogspot.com/2013/07 ... ds-as.html
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Re: A contemporary analysis of the dukkha of avoidance

Post by peteG »

Here is the latest post to my blog. This one is about the meaning of the term "connected": http://mindfullasd.blogspot.com/2013/07 ... -room.html
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Re: A contemporary analysis of the dukkha of avoidance

Post by peteG »

Here’s the latest post to my blog: http://mindfullasd.blogspot.com/2013/08 ... dness.html It discusses the application of Loving-Kindness principles. You can see past posts at: http://mindfullasd.blogspot.com/
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Re: A contemporary analysis of the dukkha of avoidance

Post by peteG »

I've published a new post to my blog. It is titled: "Black and White Thinking the Middle Path and Relationships". It can be found here: http://mindfullasd.blogspot.com/2014/07 ... -path.html

thanks
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phil
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Re: A contemporary analysis of the dukkha of avoidance

Post by phil »

Hello Retro, all
retrofuturist wrote:Greetings,

The Buddha doesn't seem as averse to such perceptions as "nina and sujin" are...
Dhp 18 wrote:Here he is happy, hereafter he is happy; one who performs meritorious deeds is happy in both existences. Happily he exclaims: "I have done meritorious deeds." He is happier still when he is reborn in a higher world (suggati).
Metta,
Retro. :)
Do you think the Buddha is referring to. for example. people who do dana because of their fear of death. who contribute to temples because of that aversion? They are very confident that they have done a good deed and the quote you provided would make them even happier, but it is just foolishness rooted in fear, it seems to me. But the other day I heard a Dhamma discussion in which Sujin (Boriharnwanaket) was saying ( and Nina van Gorkom agreed) that there are "pre-perfections" , in other words kusala done without being accompanied by panna, and that at least that means there is at such times than not doing of bad deeds and this makes it easier to have an opportunity to hear the teaching.

I think this thread is interesting and important. there is rarely any recognition by anyone, for example, about how our so called "practices" are all about escaping from fear. Or about how Buddhism is usually just something that people who are thoroughly intoxicated through the sense doors pop on top to provide a sense of something deeper, for reassurement that there is something beyond the fear or of death and disease that is constantly lurking. We are (most of us most of the time) living like princes who have never left the pleasure palace behind but keep a corner in it for sitting and thinking pleasant thoughts about renunciation, encouraged all the more by our books full of suttas that we enjoy through highlighted paragraphs
How many moments are there when there is a real intention of renunciation rather than seeking pleasure in subtler forms of mental pleasure? That's a rhetorical question but I think it's good to reflect on what is really behind our interest in the Dhamma most of the time if we are honest.

Phil
P.S I haven't been to this forum for awhile and I see that the signature quotation I stuck on some years ago is a good example of the kind of thing that I wrote about above, how nice it is if we can believe that wisdom shines forth in what appears to be good behavior. And yet I don't think I will change it because at least when there is superficially good behavior there is not bad behavior, and and for those of us who are prone to bad behavior at least at such times there may be better conditions to hear the teaching and for panna to begin to develop very gradually.
Kammalakkhano , bhikkhave, bālo, kammalakkhano pandito, apadānasobhanī paññāti
(The fool is characterized by his/her actions/the wise one is characterized by his/her actions/Wisdom shines forth in behaviour.)
(AN 3.2 Lakkhana Sutta)
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Alex123
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Re: A contemporary analysis of the dukkha of avoidance

Post by Alex123 »

robertk wrote: The commentary to the Netti pakarana has a section on the 38 vancakkha dhammas- the cheating dhammas.
very interesting.
Remember Nanda and 500 nymphs sutta? Buddha convinced him that by being a good bhikkhu he would be reborn with 500 celestial nymphs. This caused Nanda to practice, eventually correct his motivation, and become an Arahant.

Maybe similar case is with us. We need to start where we are. Our intentions in the begining can be imperfect, but can eventually change. You can't expect to be perfect before you start to practice. Right?
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robertk
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Re: A contemporary analysis of the dukkha of avoidance

Post by robertk »

:Dear alex
The example you use is not really about cheating dhammas. The monk was practicing correctly , that is how he attained nibbana.
Although of course eveyone is fooled by the cheating dhammas sometimes, the one too often mistaking the cheating dhammas as being the real ones will keep going in the wrong direction. The more effort they put in the deeper the hole they dig.
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