starter wrote:Dear friends,
I've just read MN 8 again and would like to share with you some new understanding about effacement and our teacher for effacement.
MN 8. Sallekha sutta [http://www.palicanon.org/en/sutta-pitaka/transcribed-suttas/majjhima-nikaya/129-mn-8-sallekha-sutta-effacement.html]
1) Know what to efface (efface all the unwholesome states/qualities), and what to cultivate (all the wholesome states/qualities)
2) Incline the mind towards the wholesome
3) Practice the effacement by (with non-cruelty as foundation):
a. Abstaining from the ten unwholesome deeds (wash away the “gross sand”)
b. Cultivating the ten wholesome factors of the path (wash away the “fine sand”)
i. Effacing the five hindrances
ii. Effacing the various defilements
4) The way to lead upwards (by the wholesome): cultivate the wholesome
5) The way of extinguishing (defilements):
"Cunda, that one who is himself sinking in the mud should pull out another who is sinking in the mud is impossible; that one who is not himself sinking in the mud should pull out another
who is sinking in the mud is possible. That one who is himself untamed, undisciplined, [with defilements] unextinguished, should tame another, discipline him, and help extinguish [his
defilements] is impossible; that one who is himself tamed, disciplined, [with defilements] extinguished, should tame another, discipline him, and help extinguish [his defilements] is
possible. So too: (1) A person given to cruelty has non-cruelty by which to extinguish it. …
To my understanding, the Buddha taught us here to use the wholesome (Dhamma) to extinguish the unwholesome, instead of relying on unliberated teachers. Only arahants, not any unliberated ones such as stream winners, can truly teach others to efface defilements. While helping others, an unliberated one should always point his students to the Dhamma as their ultimate teacher (instead of himself) and let them realize that what he taught might be wrong. We as students should always remember to rely on the Dhamma as our ultimate teacher and refuge, since we can’t judge if someone is fully enlightened or not.
The same principle was taught in AN 3.65 Kalama Sutta:
So, as I said, Kalamas: 'Don't go by reports, by legends, by traditions, by scripture, by logical conjecture, by inference, by analogies, by agreement through pondering views, by probability, or by the thought, "This contemplative is our teacher." When you know for yourselves that, "These teachings are unwholesome; these teachings are blameworthy; these teachings criticized by the wise; these teachings, when adopted & carried out, lead to harm & to suffering" — then you should abandon them.' ...
Now, Kalamas, ... When you know for yourselves that, 'These teachings are wholesome; these teachings are blameless; these teachings are praised by the wise; these teachings, when adopted & carried out, lead to welfare & to happiness' — then you should adopt & carry them out. [Of course the highest teachings that can lead to the supreme happiness, nibbana, is the Buddha's teaching, the Dhamma.]
Happy Chinese New Year to all Chinese friends!
Metta to all,
starter wrote:Only arahants, not any unliberated ones such as stream winners, can truly teach others to efface defilements. While helping others, an unliberated one should always point his students to the Dhamma as their ultimate teacher (instead of himself) and let them realize that what he taught might be wrong.
starter wrote:— Mahāparinibbāna Sutta —
To some of you, Ānanda, it may occur thus: 'The words of the Teacher have ended, there is a Teacher no longer'. But it should not, Ānanda, be so considered. Indeed, Ānanda, that which I have taught and made known to you as the Dhamma and the Vinaya will be your Teacher after my passing away.
Dhammavuddho Thero wrote:Nowadays, there is a proliferation of books on the Buddha's Teachings. Studying these books would inevitably result in imbibing some of the views and interpretations of the various writers on what the Buddha actually taught, which would result in some wrong views. On the other hand, there are some meditation teachers who advise their students not to study at all but to only meditate. In effect, what they are suggesting is for their students to listen to them only. Avoiding the two extremes, we should practise the middle path taught by the Buddha - investigate His discourses (1) and practise the Noble Eightfold Path, as He advised. The importance of the Buddha's discourses for the practice of the Dhamma, whether by lay people or by monks, can hardly be exaggerated.
From: Liberation - Relevance of Sutta-Vinaya by Dhammavuddho Thero
This essay was based on the Dhamma talk "Importance of the Buddha's Discourses" delivered on 9th December 1997 by Venerable Dhammavuddho Thero. This article first appeared in THERAVADA (March 1999). The Journal of Theravada Society of Australia.
Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:starter wrote:Only arahants, not any unliberated ones such as stream winners, can truly teach others to efface defilements. While helping others, an unliberated one should always point his students to the Dhamma as their ultimate teacher (instead of himself) and let them realize that what he taught might be wrong.
I don't think one needs to be liberated to teach others. As long as one has both academic knowledge and practical experience, there is much that one can do. Whether the teaching is effective or not depends as much on the listener as on the speaker. Many monks became Arahants after studying the Dhamma under the Venerable Pothila, who was just a puthujjana AFAIK.
AN 5.159: Udayi Sutta [http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/an/an05/an05.159.than.html]
"It's not easy to teach the Dhamma to others, Ananda. The Dhamma should be taught to others only when five qualities are established within the person teaching. Which five?
" The Dhamma should be taught with the thought, 'I will speak step-by-step.' [For the Buddha's typical step-by-step teaching see Ud 5.3: Kuṭṭhi Sutta; to my understanding the step-by-step talk is more concerning the theoretical understanding, instead of the actual practice]
" The Dhamma should be taught with the thought, 'I will speak explaining the sequence [of the path/practice (I changed the sequence "of the course and effect" into the sequence "of the path/practice", since the sequence of course and effect is included in the step-by-step theoretical talk; if the Buddha meant explaining course and effect, then he would more likely directly say "course and effect", instead of just saying "the sequence").'
" The Dhamma should be taught with the thought, 'I will speak out of compassion.'
" The Dhamma should be taught with the thought, 'I will speak not for the purpose of material reward.'
" The Dhamma should be taught with the thought, 'I will speak without hurting myself or others.'
As I understand from the above teaching, only a noble disciple who has fathomed/mastered the sequence of the path/practice (then s/he must be above a stream winner) can teach the Dhamma to others. Otherwise, he might just mislead others in their Dhamma practice.
Your input would be appreciated. Metta to all!
starter wrote:As I understand from the above teaching, only a noble disciple who has fathomed/mastered the sequence of the path/practice (then s/he must be above a stream winner) can teach the Dhamma to others. Otherwise, he might just mislead others in their Dhamma practice.
Gifts He Left Behind: The Dhamma Legacy of Ajaan Dune Atulo wrote:When I asked, "Have there ever been any run-of-the-mill people still thick with defilements who have nevertheless been able to teach other people to become arahants?" he answered,
"Haven't there been a lot of doctors who, even though they themselves are ill, have been able to cure other people of their illnesses?"
MN 12: Maha-sihanada Sutta wrote:Again, the Tathagata understands as it actually is how beings have different inclinations. That too is a Tathagata's power...
Again, the Tathagata understands as it actually is the disposition of the faculties of other beings, other persons. That too is a Tathagata's power...
Arahants, Bodhisattvas, and Buddhas by Ven. Bhikkhu Bodhi wrote:Other arahants can certainly teach, and many do teach groups of disciples. Nevertheless, as teachers they do not compare with the Buddha. This is so in at least two respects: First, the Dhamma they teach others is one that comes from the Buddha, and thus ultimately the Buddha is the source of their wisdom; and second, their skills in teaching never match in all respects the skills of the Buddha, who is the only one who knows the path in its entirety. The Buddha can function so effectively as a teacher because his attainment of enlightenment — the knowledge of the four noble truths, which brings the destruction of the defilements — brings along the acquisition of several other types of knowledge that are considered special assets of a Buddha. Chief among these, according to the oldest sources, are the ten Tathāgata powers (see MN I 70-71), which include the knowledge of the diverse inclinations of beings (sattānaṃ nānādhimuttikataṃ yathābhūtaṃ ñāṇaṃ) and the knowledge of the degree of maturity of the faculties of other beings (parasattānaṃ parapuggalānaṃ indriyaparopariyattaṃ yathābhūtaṃ ñāṇaṃ). Such types of knowledge enable the Buddha to understand the mental proclivities and capacities of any person who comes to him for guidance, and to teach that person in the particular way that will prove most beneficial, taking full account of his or her character and personal circumstances. He is thus "the unsurpassed trainer of persons to be tamed." Whereas arahant disciples are limited in their communicative skills, the Buddha can communicate effectively with beings in many other realms of existence, as well as with people from many different walks of life. This skill singles him out as "the teacher of devas and humans."
culaavuso wrote:It may be possible for a person who has not themselves mastered the practice to happen to quote the right set of teachings to allow others to master the practice.
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