Are these the teachings of the Buddha?

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starter
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Are these the teachings of the Buddha?

Postby starter » Fri Jul 05, 2013 1:26 am

I came across the following quote and couldn't find which sutta it's from. Would someone kindly help me with the sutta?

"The Buddha said: "Do not believe in anyone just because he is a teacher, he speaks eloquently or is otherwise impressive. Do not even believe in my words - just because I said them, but try to experience everything by yourself. Only if you experience the Dhamma by yourself does it become your wisdom. Belief is only belief, not knowing, not wisdom. If you experience things yourself then no-one can tell you that it is not like that, because you know it from your own experience.""


Thanks and metta!
Last edited by starter on Tue Jul 09, 2013 1:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

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David N. Snyder
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Re: The sutta for a quoted teaching by the Buddha?

Postby David N. Snyder » Fri Jul 05, 2013 1:35 am

Image

Kalama Sutta [big] misquote.

Here is the real one: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
Image




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Re: The sutta for a quoted teaching by the Buddha?

Postby mikenz66 » Fri Jul 05, 2013 2:30 am


starter
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Re: The sutta for a quoted teaching by the Buddha?

Postby starter » Fri Jul 05, 2013 8:14 pm

Hello David and Mike,

Thanks for the clarification. Since the misquote is somehow widespread, and even some famous teacher(s) taught it that way, I think it's necessary to quote the real teaching here and hope this thread can be read/known by those teacher(s).

AN 3.65 Kalama Sutta:

"So, as I said, Kalamas: 'Don't go by reports, by legends, by traditions, by scripture, by logical conjecture, by inference, by analogies, by agreement through pondering views, by probability, or by the thought, "This contemplative is our teacher." When you know for yourselves that, "These qualities are unwholesome; these qualities are blameworthy; these qualities are criticized by the wise; these qualities, when adopted & carried out, lead to harm & to suffering" — then you should abandon them.' Thus was it said. And in reference to this was it said."

"Now, Kalamas, don't go by reports, by legends, by traditions, by scripture, by logical conjecture, by inference, by analogies, by agreement through pondering views, by probability, or by the thought, 'This contemplative is our teacher.' When you know for yourselves that, 'These qualities are wholesome; these qualities are blameless; these qualities are praised by the wise; these qualities, when adopted & carried out, lead to welfare & to happiness' — then you should enter & remain in them."

Metta to all!

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Re: Are these the teachings of the Buddha?

Postby starter » Tue Jul 09, 2013 1:11 am

I came across the following description of Theravada Buddhist Chaplin at the University of British Columnbia website:

http://students.ubc.ca/livewell/spiritu ... t-chaplain

"... Broadly speaking, one of the peculiarities of this tradition is that it encourages all the people in the world to try out its practices and goal without leaving their own religion.

The following statements of the Buddha clarify what Theravada Buddhism is all about:

-- Do not believe anything on mere hearsay.
-- Do not believe in traditions merely because they are old and have been handed down for many generations and in many places.
-- Do not believe anything on account of rumors or because people talk a great deal about it.
-- Do not believe anything because you are shown the written testimony of some ancient sage.
-- Do not believe in what you have fancied, thinking that, because it is extraordinary, it must have been inspired by a god or other wonderful being.
-- Do not believe anything merely because presumption is in its favor, or because the custom of many years inclines you to take it as true.
-- Do not believe anything merely on the authority of your teachers and priests.
But, whatever, after thorough investigation and reflection, you find to agree with reason and experience, as conducive to the good and benefit of one and all and of the world at large, accept only that as true, and shape your life in accordance with it."

Metta to all!

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Re: Are these the teachings of the Buddha?

Postby mal4mac » Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:53 am

Is the misquote a reasonable summary of the teachings? If not, why not?
- Mal

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Ben
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Re: Are these the teachings of the Buddha?

Postby Ben » Mon Jul 15, 2013 10:03 am

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

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Re: Are these the teachings of the Buddha?

Postby binocular » Mon Jul 15, 2013 11:33 am


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Kim OHara
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Re: Are these the teachings of the Buddha?

Postby Kim OHara » Mon Jul 15, 2013 12:00 pm


binocular
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Re: Are these the teachings of the Buddha?

Postby binocular » Mon Jul 15, 2013 8:45 pm


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mikenz66
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Re: Are these the teachings of the Buddha?

Postby mikenz66 » Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:04 pm


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Re: The sutta for a quoted teaching by the Buddha?

Postby daverupa » Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:20 pm


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Re: Are these the teachings of the Buddha?

Postby Coyote » Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:23 pm

Binocular makes a good point. If a quote is an accurate summery of a teaching, I don't think it matters if it is word-for-word out of the Pali Canon.
Though it would be nice if people afforded the same courtesy to Buddhism as they do to other religious teachings, like Christianity, and Islam. They, at least, are more often correctly sourced.

I saw another "fake" quote on the weekend, and I think it was this one:

Let go of anger,
hatred and negativity.
Maintain pure thoughts of loving-kindness
and positivity

Although my mind instantly reacted as I did not recognise it as genuine, it does form a nice summary of the teachings on metta.

However with the Kalama sutta misquotes, as others have shown, they are often misleading.
"If beings knew, as I know, the results of giving & sharing, they would not eat without having given, nor would the stain of miserliness overcome their minds. Even if it were their last bite, their last mouthful, they would not eat without having shared."
Iti 26

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Re: Are these the teachings of the Buddha?

Postby binocular » Tue Jul 16, 2013 8:35 am


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Re: Are these the teachings of the Buddha?

Postby binocular » Tue Jul 16, 2013 8:48 am


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Re: Are these the teachings of the Buddha?

Postby mal4mac » Mon Jul 22, 2013 6:34 am

- Mal

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Re: Are these the teachings of the Buddha?

Postby BlackBird » Mon Jul 22, 2013 7:10 am

"For a disciple who has conviction in the Teacher's message & lives to penetrate it, what accords with the Dhamma is this:
'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." -

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fig tree
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Re: Are these the teachings of the Buddha?

Postby fig tree » Mon Jul 22, 2013 7:27 am

I think the fact that plausible inference and "pondering of views" can go wrong is very important here. The sutta implies that there is such a thing as knowledge, but it seems to me that we nearly always only reach a point where some notion is highly credible to us. The unfortunate paraphrases often seem to give the impression that this usual process is good enough so long as we don't bow too easily to authority instead. But it seems to me we're called upon to do better than content ourselves with just the kind of understanding we usually get.

I think it's good to read this sutta together with the Apannaka sutta, , which argues for using certain views without making excessive claims to know that they are the only correct views.

Fig Tree

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manas
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Re: Are these the teachings of the Buddha?

Postby manas » Mon Jul 22, 2013 9:43 pm

Then the Blessed One, picking up a tiny bit of dust with the tip of his fingernail, said to the monk, "There isn't even this much form...feeling...
perception...fabrications...consciousness that is constant, lasting, eternal, not subject to change, that will stay just as it is as long as eternity."

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Re: Are these the teachings of the Buddha?

Postby Kim OHara » Mon Jul 22, 2013 9:49 pm

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