Identifying Bodhi Translations from Scholarly Refs.

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danieLion
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Identifying Bodhi Translations from Scholarly Refs.

Postby danieLion » Thu Jul 25, 2013 2:44 am

Hi,
When a scholar references, for instance...

-Majjhima Nikaya III, p. 32 (Majjhima Nikaya, ed., J. Kashyap, 3 Vols., Nalanda, 1958..., The Collection of Middle Length Sayings, Eng. tr. by I.B. Horner, 3 Vols. PTS, London, 1954-1959)

...how do I identify it in my Bhikkhu Bodhi translation?

Kindly,
dL

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mikenz66
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Re: Identifying Bodhi Translations from Scholarly Refs.

Postby mikenz66 » Thu Jul 25, 2013 9:49 am

That sounds confusing.

Commonly a reference like M iii 32 would be page 32 of volume 3 of the PTS Pali (not translation) text. In that case you can flip through Bhikkhu Bodhi's translation and find the page numbers, which are in the page headings, and in square brackets in the text. So if it were M iii 32 that's in MN 112, page 905.

Does that seem feasible?

:anjali:
Mike

danieLion
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Re: Identifying Bodhi Translations from Scholarly Refs.

Postby danieLion » Thu Jul 25, 2013 8:54 pm

Thanks Mike,
Completely feasible, except it doesn't seem to work with Dube's referencing (from Cross Currents in Early Buddhism). Or maybe I'm a poor cross-referencer? The MN citation in my OP is from his bibliography, but his references don't seem to correpsond to the Bodhi PTS volume/page system.

E.g., on page 42, Dube says:

1. "But in the case there arose any dispute over the fruits (magga), path (patipada) or the congregation (sangha) it would be a matter of regeret and harm." REFERENCE: MN III, pp. 38 ff (fn 29, p. 82).

I don't see how his sentence relates to what I find with Bodhi.

Likewise with the next sentence:

2. "Should there arise and such an occasion, he recommended the guidance of senior monks." REFERENCE: MN III, p. 32 (fn 30, p. 82).

Likewise the next sentence:

3. "Similarly, he once explained to Ananda that he taught the Dahmma according to classification, which obviously points to his analytical (vibhajjavadi) method of approach." REFERENCE: MN II, 73 (fn 31, p. 82).

Likewise the next sentence:

4. "He added in the same context that those of his followers who would not apporove and agree with this would ultimately indulge controversies and disputations. In an anticipation of such developments he seems to have devised certain measures for dealing with them." REFERENCE: MN III, pp. 44-5 (fn 32, p. 82).

Very frustrating. All this sounds familiar, like I've read the references before. They just don't seem to line up.

Kindly,
dL

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daverupa
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Re: Identifying Bodhi Translations from Scholarly Refs.

Postby daverupa » Thu Jul 25, 2013 9:15 pm

That book (1981) is based on a Ph.D. dissertation for the University of Rajasthan, Jaipur, in 1968. Which editions of the MN were published in those days, I wonder?
    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.
- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]

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mikenz66
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Re: Identifying Bodhi Translations from Scholarly Refs.

Postby mikenz66 » Thu Jul 25, 2013 9:35 pm

The PTS Pali version certainly was, and that's the common way for English-language writers to be specific about what they are referring to (down to the page). Unfortunately, as Daniel says, this particular reference doesn't seem to be following that convention.

All I can suggest is to assume that iii, 32 is a few suttas into the final 50 suttas of the MN, and just do an exhaustive search for the relevant passage.

:anjali:
Mike

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mikenz66
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Re: Identifying Bodhi Translations from Scholarly Refs.

Postby mikenz66 » Thu Jul 25, 2013 9:46 pm

Also, the old PTS translations can now be freely downloaded:
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=17206
http://obo.genaud.net/backmatter/indexe ... m#pts_pdfs
so if there is a page reference to those, it would easy to locate, and then you could find the sutta in BB's translation.

:anjali:
Mike

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Re: Identifying Bodhi Translations from Scholarly Refs.

Postby pulga » Fri Jul 26, 2013 3:07 am

daverupa wrote:That book (1981) is based on a Ph.D. dissertation for the University of Rajasthan, Jaipur, in 1968. Which editions of the MN were published in those days, I wonder?


It would probably be listed in the bibliography. I imagine it could refer to the Nalanda Devanagari Pali Series.

danieLion
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Re: Identifying Bodhi Translations from Scholarly Refs.

Postby danieLion » Fri Jul 26, 2013 4:27 am

mikenz66 wrote:Also, the old PTS translations can now be freely downloaded:
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=17206
http://obo.genaud.net/backmatter/indexe ... m#pts_pdfs
so if there is a page reference to those, it would easy to locate, and then you could find the sutta in BB's translation.

:anjali:
Mike

Bingo!
Thanks Mike. The page numbers match. :thumbsup:
Kindly,
dL


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