Buddhism and smoking, what's your thoughts?

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Annapurna
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Re: Is tobacco a drug

Post by Annapurna »

Oh, dear! :(

If you like, send a PM and I tell you how I stopped.

I was most horribly addicted too.

One night, I woke up and thought:

3 am?...smoke one.
:jumping:

Lit a cigarette in bed and smoked it.

Because I'd fallen asleep before doing that, I held my arm up high into the air, and was so content with my cleverness, that I was sound asleep shortly after. :lol:

The cigarette fell.

Onto me.

Into my décolleté :shock:

I woke up from the pain, jumped up, hit my head on the wall, had the burning cigarette falling down further within my nightgown, was shaking my nightgown like crazy, because that damn thing was HOT!

I am not inventing this, but from my night gown....it fell into the small gap between the 2 beds, and I could see it glow and burn the carpet ...

I aimed well, and spit on it....out....


:rofl:

That was just one of the incidents that made me wish to stop...

...another was...taking a shower, and thinking the doorbell rang...

I turned off the water, and held my breath to listen if it rings indeed....nothing....

:?:

Back into the water, same sensation again....

It took me a while to figure out that my windpipe made this weird sound

:lol:



:hello:
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Pannapetar
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Re: Is tobacco a drug

Post by Pannapetar »

Tobacco is definitely a drug and nicotine is definitely an intoxicant. I can say this from my own (unpleasant) experience as well as from a scientific point of view. Nicotine is a highly toxic and addictive stimulant. There should be little confusion around this question.
in·tox·i·cate (n-tks-kt)
v. in·tox·i·cat·ed, in·tox·i·cat·ing, in·tox·i·cates
v.tr.
1. To stupefy or excite by the action of a chemical substance such as alcohol.
2. To stimulate or excite: "a man whom life intoxicates, who has no need of wine" (Anaïs Nin).
3. To poison.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/intoxicate" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Thus smoking is definitely incompatible with the 5th precept. The reason why cigarettes are treated differently from alcohol in most sanghas has to do with conventions and traditions, rather than with objective criteria.

Cheers, Thomas
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Macavity
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Re: Is tobacco a drug

Post by Macavity »

Pannapetar wrote:Tobacco is definitely a drug and nicotine is definitely an intoxicant. I can say this from my own (unpleasant) experience as well as from a scientific point of view. Nicotine is a highly toxic and addictive stimulant. There should be little confusion around this question.
in·tox·i·cate (n-tks-kt)
v. in·tox·i·cat·ed, in·tox·i·cat·ing, in·tox·i·cates
v.tr.
1. To stupefy or excite by the action of a chemical substance such as alcohol.
2. To stimulate or excite: "a man whom life intoxicates, who has no need of wine" (Anaïs Nin).
3. To poison.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/intoxicate" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Thus smoking is definitely incompatible with the 5th precept. The reason why cigarettes are treated differently from alcohol in most sanghas has to do with conventions and traditions, rather than with objective criteria.

I don't agree. I used to smoke two packs a day and the cigarettes neither stupefied me nor excited me. So that's your first two definitions out. All that the cigarettes did was to provide temporary relief from the misery of craving a cigarette but not having one.

As for the third definition, it's true that nicotine poisons you, but the the fifth precept isn't about intoxication in this sense. And so although smoking is undesirable, I'd say it's no more against the fifth precept than, say, indulging an addiction to cholesterol-rich cream cakes.
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Ben
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Re: Is tobacco a drug

Post by Ben »

I'd have to agree with Macavity. Nicotine doesn't have the same consciousness altering properties as alcohol, emphetamines, cannabis, heroin, cocaine etc.
Nicotine is definitely a very toxic poison, as per the extract from the PIM substance datasheet in one of my earlier posts, but being a poison doesn't necessarily mean that it intoxicates.
Kind regards

Ben
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Pannapetar
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Re: Is tobacco a drug

Post by Pannapetar »

Macavity wrote:I used to smoke two packs a day and the cigarettes neither stupefied me nor excited me.
The fact that -as a heavy smoker- one is desensitized to the stimulating effect of nicotine does not mean that there is no effect. Nicotine is a stimulant. A stimulant excites. Therefore, nicotine is one type of intoxicant, though its psychoactive effect is relatively mild. I am afraid this is a scientific fact and therefore it's not really open to discussion. At best you could argue that "mild stimulants" should not be included in the precept. But then we are arguing semantics. Clearly, the more pernicious property of nicotine is its addictiveness, and it does cause "heedlessness" as beautifully evidenced in previous posts of this thread.
Macavity wrote:As for the third definition, it's true that nicotine poisons you, but the the fifth precept isn't about intoxication in this sense.
That maybe your interpretation. I interpret the fifth precept in the sense of in-toxicants in the literal sense, where it means poison. One should abstain from poisoning the body and the mind, especially with substances that are detrimental to samadhi. A formulation in this spirit was given by Thich Nhat Hanh in what he calls the Five Mindfulness Trainings. This represents in my view the most complete understanding of the spirit of the precepts.

Cheers, Thomas
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Jechbi
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Re: Is tobacco a drug

Post by Jechbi »

Pannapetar wrote:I interpret the fifth precept in the sense of in-toxicants in the literal sense, where it means poison.
Well there goes my 32-ounce Coca Cola. And my coffee. And my tea, I guess, cuz it has a little bit of caffeine. And my orange juice if it happens to ferment somewhat and contain a trace of alcohol. And my butter. And my donuts.

D'oh!
Rain soddens what is kept wrapped up,
But never soddens what is open;
Uncover, then, what is concealed,
Lest it be soddened by the rain.
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Pannapetar
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Re: Is tobacco a drug

Post by Pannapetar »

Jechbi wrote:Well there goes my 32-ounce Coca Cola. And my coffee. And my tea, I guess, cuz it has a little bit of caffeine. And my orange juice if it happens to ferment somewhat and contain a trace of alcohol. And my butter. And my donuts.
It ain't easy bein' a Buddhist! :tongue:

I guess the key is moderation. For example, I like to drink green tea. But tea is a stimulant and I can feel that is has an effect on my meditation practice, at least, if I drink more than three cups per day. So for now, I set myself a limit of three cups.

The important thing is: I don't find it meaningful to ban alcohol completely while at the same time okaying heavy smoking. This is in my view living by the letter of the precepts rather than by its spirit. The ancient adage "moderation in all things" (was it Aristotle?) seems much closer to the idea of the "middle way".

Cheers, Thomas
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Jechbi
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Re: Is tobacco a drug

Post by Jechbi »

Pannapetar wrote:I guess the key is moderation. ... The ancient adage "moderation in all things" (was it Aristotle?) seems much closer to the idea of the "middle way".
So a moderate amount of poison is ok then? Like maybe one smoke a week?
Rain soddens what is kept wrapped up,
But never soddens what is open;
Uncover, then, what is concealed,
Lest it be soddened by the rain.
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Pannapetar
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Re: Is tobacco a drug

Post by Pannapetar »

Jechbi wrote:So a moderate amount of poison is ok then? Like maybe one smoke a week?
I suppose so. But have you ever seen anybody who smokes one cigarette per week?

Cheers, Thomas
sundara
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Re: Is tobacco a drug

Post by sundara »

Tobacco is a drug, I feel nausiating if the monks don't include that in the 5th precept , that's a big fault on Buddhism's part if they don't include that. Nicotine is a powerful drug. One drop of nicotine can kill a horse. Nicotine stupifies and it's harmful to the body. And also it's causing the 2nd Noble truth to work and hence make the 1st Noble truth to function.
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BlackBird
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Re: Is tobacco a drug

Post by BlackBird »

sundara wrote:Tobacco is a drug, I feel nausiating if the monks don't include that in the 5th precept , that's a big fault on Buddhism's part if they don't include that. Nicotine is a powerful drug.
I don't think it's fair to critisise the Sangha at large for the acts of some Monks.
So far the consensus tends to be that although Tobacco is a harmful poison, it does not violate the 5th precept because it does not unto itself, cause people to act in a unskillful way.

That's not to say it's accepted by the Sangha at large, in the branch monastery of the Ajahn Chah lineage that I stayed at, smoking wasn't really acceptable conduct. I think that many amongst the Western Sangha realise that smoking has the potential to cause criticism.

If you feel nausiated by the idea that some monks smoke, or allow others to smoke, then perhaps one might like to examine one's views, and see what is really causing the bad feelings. Suffering is not reliant upon an external source - It comes from within.

Be well my friend

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Bhikkhu Pesala
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Five Years for Smoking!

Post by Bhikkhu Pesala »

Bhutan monk faces jail for anti-smoking law violation

Never mind. He can do a bit more meditation than usual.
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retrofuturist
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Re: Five Years for Smoking!

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings bhante,

It adds a new flavour to the term 'meditation cell'.

Metta,
Retro. :)
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Aloka
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Re: Five Years for Smoking!

Post by Aloka »

It doesn't say anything about breaking vows - are monks allowed to smoke/chew tobacco ? I thought tobacco was classed as an intoxicant.
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Bhikkhu Pesala
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Re: Five Years for Smoking!

Post by Bhikkhu Pesala »

Aloka wrote:It doesn't say anything about breaking vows - are monks allowed to smoke/chew tobacco ? I thought tobacco was classed as an intoxicant.
It is not really clear from the Vinaya rules. What rule would it be violating? It could be classed as an intoxicant, I suppose, but that is dubious.

However, this case is different:
"We will charge him with smuggling of controlled material, which is a fourth degree felony," an official of the Bhutanese Narcotic Drug and Law Enforcement unit told the BBC.
Smuggling contraband is an offence of defeat for a bhikkhu. Depending on what exactly the bhikkhu did in this case, he may have fallen into an offence of defeat.
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