Thanissaro's 'Unprovoked' in the Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta

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Thanissaro's 'Unprovoked' in the Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta

Postby Viscid » Sun Jan 06, 2013 5:18 pm

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Re: Thanissaro's 'Unprovoked' in the Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta

Postby piotr » Sun Jan 06, 2013 5:39 pm

Bhagavaṃmūlakā no, bhante, dhammā...

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Re: Thanissaro's 'Unprovoked' in the Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta

Postby piotr » Sun Jan 06, 2013 5:50 pm

Bhagavaṃmūlakā no, bhante, dhammā...

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Re: Thanissaro's 'Unprovoked' in the Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta

Postby Viscid » Mon Jan 07, 2013 6:37 pm

Thanks piotr, the dhatu etymology is actually quite fascinating.

So am I wrong in thinking Thanissaro uses 'Unprovoked' to mean Nibbana is thus an 'Unconditioned'? It looks like a very deliberate change in translation to further a view that Nibbana is a sort of eternal reality. Not that I mind.
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Re: Thanissaro's 'Unprovoked' in the Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta

Postby piotr » Mon Jan 07, 2013 8:41 pm

Hi,

I can't speak for bhante Ṭhānissaro, since I haven't heard more on this from him.

As for Commentary it says in one place (MN-a 26) — if I understand it correctly — that liberation is not disturbed by lust, aversion and delusion. (Sā hi rāgādīhi na kuppatīti akuppatāyapi akuppā.)
Bhagavaṃmūlakā no, bhante, dhammā...

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Re: Thanissaro's 'Unprovoked' in the Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta

Postby Viscid » Mon Jan 07, 2013 9:12 pm

Right, but if Thanissaro believed that akuppa meant that release is not disturbable by greed, hatred and delusion, he would've stuck with 'unshakable.' But he changed the meaning of the utterance from 'The Buddha's liberation was fixed' to 'The Buddha's liberation was uncaused.' The commentaries, too, seem to interpret liberation as 'unshakable.'
"What holds attention determines action." - William James

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Re: Thanissaro's 'Unprovoked' in the Dhammacakkappavattana S

Postby mal4mac » Wed Jul 31, 2013 8:25 am

- Mal

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Re: Thanissaro's 'Unprovoked' in the Dhammacakkappavattana S

Postby Viscid » Wed Jul 31, 2013 6:27 pm

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Re: Thanissaro's 'Unprovoked' in the Dhammacakkappavattana S

Postby Kumara » Thu Aug 01, 2013 3:01 am

I wonder if the choice might be partly a respond/reaction to the Christian claim that it is by the grace of God that one is enlightened.
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Re: Thanissaro's 'Unprovoked' in the Dhammacakkappavattana S

Postby gavesako » Fri Aug 02, 2013 5:30 pm

Bhikkhu Gavesako
Kiṃkusalagavesī anuttaraṃ santivarapadaṃ pariyesamāno... (MN 26)

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Re: Thanissaro's 'Unprovoked' in the Dhammacakkappavattana S

Postby pulga » Fri Aug 02, 2013 5:51 pm


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Re: Thanissaro's 'Unprovoked' in the Dhammacakkappavattana S

Postby Viscid » Fri Aug 02, 2013 10:14 pm

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Re: Thanissaro's 'Unprovoked' in the Dhammacakkappavattana S

Postby pulga » Fri Aug 02, 2013 10:47 pm


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Re: Thanissaro's 'Unprovoked' in the Dhammacakkappavattana S

Postby Viscid » Fri Aug 02, 2013 11:18 pm

"What holds attention determines action." - William James

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Re: Thanissaro's 'Unprovoked' in the Dhammacakkappavattana S

Postby reflection » Sat Aug 03, 2013 12:17 am


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Re: Thanissaro's 'Unprovoked' in the Dhammacakkappavattana S

Postby pulga » Sat Aug 03, 2013 2:01 am


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Re: Thanissaro's 'Unprovoked' in the Dhammacakkappavattana S

Postby Viscid » Sat Aug 03, 2013 2:20 am

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