Something Missing

An open and inclusive investigation into Buddhism and spiritual cultivation

Something Missing

Postby lobotrock » Sun Aug 04, 2013 8:02 am

Hi,

Buddha, seems like, was good. Don't kill, cheat, or steal? Sounds good to me. Use logic and your own reason? Yes, please.

Buddha says to meditate to be within present moment. Present moment is where we already are, can't argue with that. In present moment, we can see more clearly. I agree with all this.

However, meditation happens while sitting on cushion in quiet room. Present moment is reached from this state of initial comfort.

What happens when suffering comes into present moment, and we are not sitting on cushion in quiet area?
lobotrock
 
Posts: 6
Joined: Sun Aug 04, 2013 7:51 am

Re: Something Missing

Postby Ben » Sun Aug 04, 2013 8:21 am

Who says suffering is not present when one is sitting in meditation?
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.

Taṃ nadīhi vijānātha:
sobbhesu padaresu ca,
saṇantā yanti kusobbhā,
tuṇhīyanti mahodadhī.

Sutta Nipata 3.725


Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR
Buddhist Life Stories of Australia

e: ben.dhammawheel@gmail.com
User avatar
Ben
Site Admin
 
Posts: 16156
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:49 am
Location: Land of the sleeping gods

Re: Something Missing

Postby Aloka » Sun Aug 04, 2013 8:27 am

What happens when suffering comes into present moment, and we are not sitting on cushion in quiet area?


What we do on the cushion helps us with daily life, it isn't something separate.

When we are not 'sitting' we can recollect the Buddha's teachings and practice mindfulness.
User avatar
Aloka
 
Posts: 3682
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2009 2:51 pm

Re: Something Missing

Postby Dan74 » Sun Aug 04, 2013 8:31 am

lobotrock wrote:Hi,

Buddha, seems like, was good. Don't kill, cheat, or steal? Sounds good to me. Use logic and your own reason? Yes, please.

Buddha says to meditate to be within present moment. Present moment is where we already are, can't argue with that. In present moment, we can see more clearly. I agree with all this.

However, meditation happens while sitting on cushion in quiet room. Present moment is reached from this state of initial comfort.

What happens when suffering comes into present moment, and we are not sitting on cushion in quiet area?


I think before we can run, we usually learn to walk. Before we can learn to deal skillfully with challenges in the midst of the hurly-burly, it might be a good idea to learn to deal with sitting still on the cushion disturbed by nothing but our mind and body.

This last thing turns out to be the real battleground anyway. But I agree - what takes place in meditation needs to be penetrate every aspect of our lives.
_/|\_
User avatar
Dan74
 
Posts: 2648
Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2009 11:12 pm

Re: Something Missing

Postby Crazy cloud » Sun Aug 04, 2013 8:33 am

lobotrock wrote:Hi,


What happens when suffering comes into present moment, and we are not sitting on cushion in quiet area?


Extrate information out of sensations, and aknowledge, forgive, learn, let go
Then you take a couple of long or short breaths, and contemplate with your eyes open or closed: this to will pass .. (or som other wise thought from your own litlle mental library of "dhammatools")

My way, by the way :)

metta

:console:
your name Mori means forest like the infinite fresh green distances of your blindness
User avatar
Crazy cloud
 
Posts: 193
Joined: Sun May 12, 2013 8:55 am

Re: Something Missing

Postby lobotrock » Sun Aug 04, 2013 8:36 am

Ben wrote:Who says suffering is not present when one is sitting in meditation?


Mental trauma is horrible, no denying that. Sometimes, we might rather taken physical pain over emotional pain.

But, if brain faces physical, emotional, and logical pain ( being wrong on important issue ) all at once, is cushion practice enough? Or, does time spent on cushion create "happy place" for brain to run to when it faces physical, emotional, and/or logical pain in waking, walking life?
lobotrock
 
Posts: 6
Joined: Sun Aug 04, 2013 7:51 am

Re: Something Missing

Postby lobotrock » Sun Aug 04, 2013 8:41 am

Aloka wrote:
What happens when suffering comes into present moment, and we are not sitting on cushion in quiet area?


What we do on the cushion helps us with daily life, it isn't something separate.

When we are not 'sitting' we can recollect the Buddha's teachings and practice mindfulness.


I think meditation is efficient for inner peace, but I don't know how sitting can lead to wisdom and selflessness..?
lobotrock
 
Posts: 6
Joined: Sun Aug 04, 2013 7:51 am

Re: Something Missing

Postby cooran » Sun Aug 04, 2013 8:43 am

Hello all,

This might be of interest:

Dukkha (suffering, stress)
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/ptf/dham ... ukkha.html

With metta,
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---
User avatar
cooran
 
Posts: 7643
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2009 11:32 pm
Location: Queensland, Australia

Re: Something Missing

Postby lobotrock » Sun Aug 04, 2013 8:46 am

Dan74 wrote:
lobotrock wrote:Hi,

Buddha, seems like, was good. Don't kill, cheat, or steal? Sounds good to me. Use logic and your own reason? Yes, please.

Buddha says to meditate to be within present moment. Present moment is where we already are, can't argue with that. In present moment, we can see more clearly. I agree with all this.

However, meditation happens while sitting on cushion in quiet room. Present moment is reached from this state of initial comfort.

What happens when suffering comes into present moment, and we are not sitting on cushion in quiet area?


I think before we can run, we usually learn to walk. Before we can learn to deal skillfully with challenges in the midst of the hurly-burly, it might be a good idea to learn to deal with sitting still on the cushion disturbed by nothing but our mind and body.

This last thing turns out to be the real battleground anyway. But I agree - what takes place in meditation needs to be penetrate every aspect of our lives.


I did not expect this many responses so fast. I hope I am mindful in my replies. I think I have been so far.

Yes, I agree to walk before run. But, is it too much to ask each adult to run on his own? It is not hard.

What I mean, is that sitting on comfy chair will lead to peace, in peaceful mind. But what else? Maybe nothing. Maybe that's all it is. Sitting in comfy chair, clearing mind - anyone can do it. There is no selflessness nor wisdom to be found - just peace, like when you eat a warm meal peace or when you watch a sunrise peace.

*by "mindful" I mean I hope I don't compete "my" idea, and rather remain objective.
Last edited by lobotrock on Sun Aug 04, 2013 8:55 am, edited 2 times in total.
lobotrock
 
Posts: 6
Joined: Sun Aug 04, 2013 7:51 am

Re: Something Missing

Postby lobotrock » Sun Aug 04, 2013 8:47 am

Crazy cloud wrote:
lobotrock wrote:Hi,


What happens when suffering comes into present moment, and we are not sitting on cushion in quiet area?


Extrate information out of sensations, and aknowledge, forgive, learn, let go
Then you take a couple of long or short breaths, and contemplate with your eyes open or closed: this to will pass .. (or som other wise thought from your own litlle mental library of "dhammatools")

My way, by the way :)

metta

:console:


Can brain do all those things in the span of time that pain is being faced? Maybe natural order of things is that it takes much time to do each of those, much longer than a couple of breath.
lobotrock
 
Posts: 6
Joined: Sun Aug 04, 2013 7:51 am

Re: Something Missing

Postby Crazy cloud » Sun Aug 04, 2013 9:00 am

lobotrock wrote:
Crazy cloud wrote:
lobotrock wrote:Hi,


Can brain do all those things in the span of time that pain is being faced? Maybe natural order of things is that it takes much time to do each of those, much longer than a couple of breath.


I'v trained my mind for the last 8 years, and it works fine. Often it's enough to just think: let go ...

And if that doesnt work fast enough, i take a few more internal steps in my own library, as mentioned.

easy piecy lemon squeesy :)
your name Mori means forest like the infinite fresh green distances of your blindness
User avatar
Crazy cloud
 
Posts: 193
Joined: Sun May 12, 2013 8:55 am

Re: Something Missing

Postby mal4mac » Sun Aug 04, 2013 9:17 am

lobotrock wrote:What I mean, is that sitting on comfy chair will lead to peace, in peaceful mind. But what else? Maybe nothing. Maybe that's all it is. Sitting in comfy chair, clearing mind - anyone can do it.


I can't, at least not consistently. Maybe you're a "natural" and can do it, but can you really speak for everyone? When I sit in a comfy chair, try and clear my mind, my mind doesn't clear! I think of something ... What's for dinner? Should I buy a carbon monoxide detector? How to stop cats pooping in my garden while being kind to them?... and on... and on...

Things go better when I try anapanasati... by focusing on the breath the 'monkey mind' is stilled, somewhat, some peace is attained.

There is no selflessness nor wisdom to be found - just peace, like when you eat a warm meal peace or when you watch a sunrise peace.


When I eat a warm meal I'm often disgruntled with thoughts like... this doesn't taste good, or, "should I buy a carbon monoxide detector? How to stop cats pooping in my garden while being kind to them?... and on... and on..." I wish I was somewhere I could see a beautiful sunrise...

I think you have to very careful to understand what is meant by "wisdom" in the context of Buddhist meditation, from what I've read, it's seeing the suffering, impermanence, and lack of self-being in every experience... then letting these experiences "just be", "letting them go", "accepting them" ... then CO & pooing cats will not irritate you... you will not require a sunrise... any warm meal will do...

It's all very tough though ... pooing cats still bother me, I'm going to get a CO detector today, I'm disgruntled about the overly plain meal I'll be having for lunch, it's cloudy & I have no view...
mal4mac
 
Posts: 95
Joined: Thu Jul 11, 2013 1:47 pm

Re: Something Missing

Postby pegembara » Sun Aug 04, 2013 1:11 pm

What I mean, is that sitting on comfy chair will lead to peace, in peaceful mind. But what else? Maybe nothing. Maybe that's all it is. Sitting in comfy chair, clearing mind - anyone can do it. There is no selflessness nor wisdom to be found - just peace, like when you eat a warm meal peace or when you watch a sunrise peace.


In fact most people can't do it - they have what is known as the monkey mind.

Question is can the peace be maintained at all times. And if not what is the cause for this? That requires investigation (dhammavicaya).
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.
pegembara
 
Posts: 642
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 8:39 am

Re: Something Missing

Postby reflection » Sun Aug 04, 2013 2:17 pm

One part is maintaining calm in meditation, another part is taking this calm into life around meditation. Sitting meditation is like a training ground, a part of the practice where we transform our minds. We practice how to respond to suffering, and how not to create new suffering. But the change of mind should be permanently, not just a temporal one that only affects us when we sit.

It seems many people have lots of trouble calming their thoughts, but even if you can do it easily, don't stop there. Don't think you've reached the end of meditation when thoughts are gone and some peace arises, because the calm and peace can grow much deeper still. This deeper peace is also easier (I'd say impossible not to) take into life outside of sitting down. If your peace of meditation easily breaks up and leaves no trace effects (which can last up to days) I'd say there is still a lot to explore.

When the mind is really peaceful, that's what it can use for real transformation.

:anjali:
User avatar
reflection
 
Posts: 1115
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:27 pm

Re: Something Missing

Postby Mindstar » Mon Aug 05, 2013 10:31 am

:goodpost:
lobotrock wrote:However, meditation happens while sitting on cushion in quiet room. Present moment is reached from this state of initial comfort.

What happens when suffering comes into present moment, and we are not sitting on cushion in quiet area?



I would say it depends on the cause of the suffering. If it is some type of bodily suffering you can send it metta and simply endure it knowing it will pass eventually. If it is mental suffering then you can try to find its exact cause and let go of it.

Sometimes when i sit in meditation the five hindrances are quite strong especially restlessness/monkey mind. The reason for it is often that i´m not content because there is mental suffering for no obvious reason. Only a contented and happy mind can become still properly.
Usually what i do then is to go to a secluded place in the forest for meditation because the energy there is of a higher quality (compared to any city) and has a purifying/healing effect on the mind making it easy to become glad and stilled. Forests are great :thumbsup:
Wherever he goes, there he is unafraid.. Wherever he sleeps, there he is unalarmed!
The nights and days does neither touch nor burn him. He sees nothing in this world
that is to be kept or lost.. Therefore his mind dwells in goodwill and gentle kindness
towards all beings until he falls asleep.
SN I 110
User avatar
Mindstar
 
Posts: 72
Joined: Thu Apr 11, 2013 4:44 am

Re: Something Missing

Postby lobotrock » Tue Aug 13, 2013 4:04 am

Crazy cloud wrote:I'v trained my mind for the last 8 years, and it works fine. Often it's enough to just think: let go ...

And if that doesnt work fast enough, i take a few more internal steps in my own library, as mentioned.

easy piecy lemon squeesy :)


Easy to let go of conscious attachment to experiences, but are unconcious attachments also dropped? And attachments to those attachments? It is confusing to me.. very confusing. I may not have this answered for a while, or perhaps ever. It may be unanswerable.
lobotrock
 
Posts: 6
Joined: Sun Aug 04, 2013 7:51 am


Return to Open Dhamma

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests