Immaterial pleasantness thinking

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Immaterial pleasantness thinking

Postby barcsimalsi » Sun Aug 04, 2013 1:15 pm

Bhikkhus, a certain recluse or brahmin gives up views about the past and views about the future, not intending any sensual bonds, overcomes the joy of seclusion, and abides, in immaterial pleasantness thinking, this abiding in immaterial pleasantness, is peaceful and exalted. That immaterial pleasantness ceases and the joy of seclusion arises to him. When the joy of seclusion ceases, the immaterial pleasantness arises to him. It is like the shade that is dispelled with light and the light that is dispelled with the shade. In the same manner a certain recluse or brahmin gives up views about the past and future, not intending any sensual bonds, overcoming the joy of seclusion, abides in immaterial pleasantness thinking the immaterial pleasantness, is peaceful and exalted. The immaterial pleasantness ceases and the joy born of seclusion arises to him. When the joy born of seclusion fades, immaterial pleasantness arises The Thus Gone One knows this good recluse or brahmin giving up views about the past and views about the future, not intending any sensual bonds, overcoming the joy of seclusion, abides in immaterial pleasantness thinking that immaterial pleasantness is peaceful and exalted. That immaterial pleasantness fades and the joy of seclusion arises to him. When the joy of seclusion fades the immaterial pleasantness arises to him. This is compounded and coarse, there is a cessation of determinations. Knowing this the Thus Gone One seeing the escape overcame it.
MN102 Pancattaya Sutta


What exactly immaterial pleasantness thinking means?
Secondly, i like to understand about the cyclic process between joy of seclusion and immaterial pleasantness thinking mentioned here.

I post on this forum in case any pali experts can provide better translation.
barcsimalsi
 
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Re: Immaterial pleasantness thinking

Postby santa100 » Sun Aug 04, 2013 3:56 pm

Alternative translation from Ven. Bodhi:
Here, bhikkhus, some recluse or brahmin, with the relinquishing of views about the past and the future, through complete lack of resolve upon the fetters of sensual pleasure, and with the surmounting of the rapture of seclusion, enters upon and abides in unworldly pleasure. He thinks: ‘This is the peaceful, this is the sublime, that I enter upon and abide in unworldly pleasure.’ That unworldly pleasure ceases in him. With the cessation of unworldly pleasure, the rapture of seclusion arises, and with the cessation of the rapture of seclusion, unworldly pleasure arises. [236] Just as the sunlight pervades the area that the shadow leaves, and the shadow pervades the area that the sunlight leaves, so too, with the cessation of unworldly pleasure, the rapture of seclusion arises and with the cessation of the rapture of seclusion, unworldly pleasure arises


And footnote:
Nirāmisaṁ sukhaṁ. This is the pleasure of the third jhāna. ~~ http://palicanon.org/index.php/sutta-pi ... -and-three ~~
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Re: Immaterial pleasantness thinking

Postby barcsimalsi » Mon Aug 05, 2013 3:28 am

Got it, thanks.
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Re: Immaterial pleasantness thinking

Postby Ananda26 » Wed Apr 09, 2014 2:08 pm

barcsimalsi wrote:
Bhikkhus, a certain recluse or brahmin gives up views about the past and views about the future, not intending any sensual bonds, overcomes the joy of seclusion, and abides, in immaterial pleasantness thinking, this abiding in immaterial pleasantness, is peaceful and exalted. That immaterial pleasantness ceases and the joy of seclusion arises to him. When the joy of seclusion ceases, the immaterial pleasantness arises to him. It is like the shade that is dispelled with light and the light that is dispelled with the shade. In the same manner a certain recluse or brahmin gives up views about the past and future, not intending any sensual bonds, overcoming the joy of seclusion, abides in immaterial pleasantness thinking the immaterial pleasantness, is peaceful and exalted. The immaterial pleasantness ceases and the joy born of seclusion arises to him. When the joy born of seclusion fades, immaterial pleasantness arises The Thus Gone One knows this good recluse or brahmin giving up views about the past and views about the future, not intending any sensual bonds, overcoming the joy of seclusion, abides in immaterial pleasantness thinking that immaterial pleasantness is peaceful and exalted. That immaterial pleasantness fades and the joy of seclusion arises to him. When the joy of seclusion fades the immaterial pleasantness arises to him. This is compounded and coarse, there is a cessation of determinations. Knowing this the Thus Gone One seeing the escape overcame it.
MN102 Pancattaya Sutta




What exactly immaterial pleasantness thinking means?
Secondly, i like to understand about the cyclic process between joy of seclusion and immaterial pleasantness thinking mentioned here.

I post on this forum in case any pali experts can provide better translation.


There are these 4 formless jhanas: the base of space, the base of consciousness, the base of nothingness, and the base of neither perception, nor non perception.

Then some person attains one of these formless states. With that attainment he experiences pleasure, but he has not yet trained himself how to experience that pleasure. He thinks this is peaceful, this is excellent, but such thinking is gross compared to the higher jhana state and with such thinking he falls away from that jhana state.


So one can train to abandon gross thinking and pondering as with the 2nd Jhana and use that experience to avoid grosser states which is a helpful factor for maintaining the higher jhana states.
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