The place of dana and caga in the path & its development

Buddhist ethical conduct including the Five Precepts (Pañcasikkhāpada), and Eightfold Ethical Conduct (Aṭṭhasīla).
starter
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Re: The place of dana and caga in the path & its development

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Happy Uposatha!

I'm reading the following teaching again and wonder if someone practices dana/caga with the genuine motive to cleanse and develop the mind would automatically reappear in the company of Brahma's Retinue without jhana, and then become a non-returner after that? Such a person is destined to gain the Right View of 4NT and the practice of the N8P either during this life or in the company of Brahma's Retinue, where he'll break up all the five lower fetters? [若以为求解脱之心行施,此即成解脱之因; 布施的发心很重要]

"...— but with the thought, 'This is an ornament for the mind, a support for the mind' — on the break-up of the body, after death, one reappears in the company of Brahma's Retinue. Then, having exhausted that action, that power, that status, that sovereignty, one is a non-returner and does not come back to this world.

This, Sariputta, is the cause, this is the reason, why a person gives a gift of a certain sort and it does not bear great fruit or great benefit, whereas another person gives a gift of the same sort and it bears great fruit and great benefit.""

(from AN 7.49)

Metta to all!

PS: Chris -- I now think it's perfectly OK to have dana done by automatic salary deductions/transfers, if your motive is to support your mind (the last kind mentioned in the above teaching). I'd like to rejoice over Chris' good deeds again and express my admiration of her generosity: Sadhu! Sadhu! Sadhu!
Last edited by starter on Fri Aug 09, 2013 4:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The place of dana and caga in the path & its development

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It seems to me that giving with the noble/supramundane motive is the third way to rebirth in Retinue of Brahma (brahma-parisajja deva– the "Councilors of Brahmā" or the devas "belonging to the assembly of Brahmā"), with the destination of non-returning. The other two ways are:

1) mastery over the first jhana.
2) meditations on loving kindness, compassion, altruistic joy, and equanimity (see the Subha Sutta, in which the Buddha taught the Brahmin Subha how to be born in the world of Brahma).

By the way, Bhikkhu Bodhi translated the phrase "'This is an ornament for the mind, a support for the mind' as 'because it ennobles and adorns the mind' [Numerical Discourses of the Buddha n°162 p.213]. As I understand, the realization of the noble motivation for giving alone is not enough; it has to be put into practice when we mindfully observe if our motivation is tainted by lower motivations or not. The noble motivation must not be tainted by lower motivations to "qualify" one for rebirth in Retinue of Brahma and then non-return.

May we all succeed in this "short cut". Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Thanks and metta!
starter
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Re: The place of dana and caga in the path & its development

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Greetings!

I went back to an old thread http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.ph ... =+selfhood about a relevant discussion concerning awareness-release through metta leads to non-returning:

Starter:
"This awareness-release through good will should be developed whether one is a woman or a man. Neither a woman nor a man can go taking this body along. Death, monks, is but a gap of a thought away. One [who practices this awareness-release] discerns, 'Whatever evil action has been done by this body born of action, that will all be experienced here [in this life]. It will not come to be hereafter.' Thus developed, awareness-release through good will leads to non-returning for the monk who has gained gnosis here and has penetrated to no higher release. [ AN 10.208]

... If s/he realizes that 'Whatever evil action has been done by this body born of action, that will all be experienced here [in this life]. It will not come to be hereafter' , then with Metta meditation one can become a non-returner. ..."

rowyourboat:
"You are right. But there is no easy route to do this! … in this case based on all consuming 24hr metta. … Don't make the mistake of choosing only the suttas you prefer and making the full case based on just that. If there was an easy path, many wise people who have gone before you would have found it."


I guess rowyourboat is right. We probably shouldn't focus on one sutta and make a full case based on just that. If the noble motivation for giving is indeed a "shortcut" to liberation, then why no other wise people went after it and left their successful stories before us ? I'll certainly practice noble giving, while practicing the 8-fold path. No matter where we practice, earlier liberation is always desirable.

Your input would be appreciated. Metta to all!
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gavesako
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Re: The place of dana and caga in the path & its development

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Here is a relevant good talk by Ajahn Thanissaro:

Merit: the Rewards & Dangers
http://dhammatalks.org/Archive/130710_M ... angers.mp3
Bhikkhu Gavesako
Kiṃkusalagavesī anuttaraṃ santivarapadaṃ pariyesamāno... (MN 26)

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starter
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Re: The place of dana and caga in the path & its development

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Greetings!

Just to add the following contents that were missing from my first post:

Dakkhiṇāvibhaṅgasuttaṁ, MN 142

http://ancient-buddhist-texts.net/Engli ... erings.htm

...

The Seven Kinds of Offerings to a Community

There are these seven offerings to a Community. What seven?

A gift one gives to both Communities, with the Buddha at their head, this is the first offering to a Community.
A gift one gives to both Communities, after the Realised One has attained Emancipation, this is the second offering to a Community.
A gift one gives to the monks' Community, this is the third offering to a Community.
A gift one gives to the nuns' Community, this is the fourth offering to a Community.
A gift one gives after saying ‘this many monks and nuns have been nominated from the monks’ and nuns' Community’, this is the fifth offering to a Community.
A gift one gives after saying ‘this many monks have been nominated from the monks’ Community’, this is the sixth offering to a Community.
A gift one gives after saying ‘this many nuns have been nominated from the nuns’ Community’, this is the seventh offering to a Community.

There will be in the future, Ānanda, clansmen with an ochre robe around their necks who are unvirtuous and bad-natured. But even a gift that is given to those unvirtuous ones because of the Community at that time, Ānanda, will be an immeasureable, unlimited offering to the Community, I say. I certainly in no way, Ānanda, say that a gift to an individual can have greater fruit than an offering to a Community. [The Gracious One said this to Mahāpajāpatī Gotamī: “Give them to the Community (instead of to me), Gotamī, when you have given them to the Community, you will have offered them to me and the Community.” This way greater fruit would be generate.]

The Purification of Offerings

There are, Ānanda, these four purifications of offerings. Which four?

There is an offering that is purified by the giver, not by the receiver,
there is an offering that is purified by the receiver, not by the giver,
there is an offering that is neither purified by the giver nor by the receiver,
there is an offering that is purified by the giver and by the receiver,

What, Ānanda, is an offering that is purified by the giver not by the receiver? Here, Ānanda, the giver is virtuous and good-natured, and the receivers are unvirtuous and bad-natured, in this way, Ānanda, the offering is purified by the giver not by the receiver.

What, Ānanda, is an offering that is purified by the receiver not by the giver? Here, Ānanda, the giver is unvirtuous and bad-natured, and the receivers are virtuous and good-natured, in this way, Ānanda, the offering is purified by the receiver not by the giver.

What, Ānanda, is an offering that is neither purified by the giver nor by the receiver? Here, Ānanda, the giver is unvirtuous and bad-natured, and the receivers are unvirtuous and bad-natured, in this way, Ānanda, the offering is purified neither by the giver nor by the receiver.

What, Ānanda, is an offering that is purified by the giver and by the receiver? Here, Ānanda, the giver is virtuous and good-natured, and the receivers are virtuous and good-natured, in this way, Ānanda, the offering is purified by the giver and by the receiver.

These, Ānanda, are these four purifications of offerings.

Summary Verse

The Gracious One said this, and after saying this, the Fortunate One, the Teacher, said something more:

“That virtuous person who, with a mind full of confidence,
gives a gift that has been righteously obtained to unvirtuous people,
who has great faith in actions and their results,
that gift will be purified by the giver.

That unvirtuous person who, with a mind lacking in confidence,
gives a gift that has been unrighteously obtained to virtuous people,
who does not have great faith in actions and their results,
that gift will be purified by the receiver.

That unvirtuous person who, with a mind lacking in confidence,
gives a gift that has been unrighteously obtained to unvirtuous people,
who does not have great faith in actions and their results,
that gift will not bring an extensive reward I say.

That virtuous person who, with a mind full of confidence,
gives a gift that has been righteously obtained to virtuous people,
who has great faith in actions and their results,
that gift will bring an extensive reward I say.

That passionless person who, with a mind full of confidence,
gives a gift that has been righteously obtained to passionless people,
who has great faith in actions and their results,
that gift is the highest of worldly gifts.”
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gavesako
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Re: The place of dana and caga in the path & its development

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This is a short discourse from the Aṅguttaranikāya (6.37) which is a very popular subject for teaching at the time of giving gifts (dāna) to the Saṅgha. It describes the important factors to be borne in mind when giving gifts, and serves to remind all present how important their own intentions are for the proper fulfilment of the gift.

In the Texts and Translations section I have translated it together with its commentary interleaved, which gives some important doctrinal information over and above the discourse, and also seeks to clarify it in places. It should also give the student an idea of how the word commentaries (vaṇṇanā) work together with their discourse.

Ānandajoti Bhikkhu
August 2014

______


At one time the Gracious One was dwelling near Sāvatthī, in Jeta’s Wood, at Anāthapiṇḍika’s monastery. Then at that time the female lay follower Veḷukaṇḍakī Nandamātā, had prepared a gift endowed with six factors for the Community of monks with Sāriputta and Moggallāna at their head.

The Gracious One saw with the divine eye, which is purified and surpasses that of (normal) men, the female lay follower Veḷukaṇḍakī Nandamātā, had prepared a gift endowed with six factors for the Community of monks with Sāriputta and Moggallāna at their head.

And after seeing it he addressed the monastics, saying: “This female lay follower Veḷukaṇḍakī Nandamātā, monastics, has prepared a gift endowed with six factors for the Community of monks with Sāriputta and Moggallāna at their head.

And what, monastics, is a gift endowed with six factors?

Here, monastics, for the donor there are three factors, and for the receivers there are three factors.

What are the three factors for the donor?

Here, monks, the donor before giving is happy in mind, while giving her mind is gladdened, and after giving there is delight.

These are the three factors for the donor.

What are the three factors for the receivers?

Here, monastics, the receivers are without passion, or they are practising to remove passion, they are without hatred, or they are practising to remove hatred, they are without delusion, or they are practising to remove delusion.

These are the three factors for the receivers.

So the donor has three factors and the receivers have three factors.

Thus, monastics, there is a gift endowed with six factors.

Thus, monastics, for a gift endowed with these six factors it is not easy to take a measure of the merit, saying: ‘So much is the accumulation of merit, is the accumulation of wholesomeness, is the means of happiness, leading to heaven, having to a happy result, conducive to heaven, which leads to what is wanted, lovely, pleasant, beneficial and pleasant.’ Rather it is immeasurable, unbounded, and is reckoned as a great mass of merit.

Just as with the great ocean, monastics, it is not easy to take a measure of the water, saying: ‘There are so many litres of water, or so many hundreds of litres of water, or so many thousands of litres of water, or so many hundreds of thousands of litres of water.’ Rather it is immeasurable, unbounded, and is reckoned as a great mass of water.

Just so, monastics, for a gift endowed with these six factors it is not easy to take a measure of the merit, saying: ‘So much is the accumulation of merit, is the accumulation of wholesomeness, is the means of happiness, leading to heaven, having to a happy result, conducive to heaven, which leads to what is wanted, lovely, pleasant, beneficial and pleasant.’ Rather it is immeasurable, unbounded, and is reckoned as a great mass of merit.

Before giving she is happy in mind, while giving her mind is gladdened,
and after giving she is uplifted, this is the success of her sacrifice.
Without passion, without hate, without delusion, without pollutants,
the field for the sacrifice is successful, being restrained in the spiritual life.

After rinsing oneself, and giving with one’s own hands,
for oneself and for the other, the sacrifice is of great fruit.

The intelligent one, having made such a sacrifice, faithful, with her mind released,
that wise one arises in a happy world, free of suffering.”


http://records.photodharma.net/texts/th ... -of-giving
Bhikkhu Gavesako
Kiṃkusalagavesī anuttaraṃ santivarapadaṃ pariyesamāno... (MN 26)

Access to Insight - Theravada texts
Ancient Buddhist Texts - Translations and history of Pali texts
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