Insights from my 21 years of practising Goenka style

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balive
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Re: Insights from my 21 years of practising Goenka style

Post by balive »

I sure am attached to the program!
Thanks again for pointing that out :)

My identity is so tied up with "getting it right", finding the "right teacher", the "right place to sit"...
I feel terrified that letting it all go will result in annihilation of my-self as a good "buddhist".
Hang on... did I really write that...
If you're still unsure, take the first step... read Jed
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pilgrim
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Re: Insights from my 21 years of practising Goenka style

Post by pilgrim »

This identification with a particular tradition or teacher is common enough. I'm beginning to see it among some people who follow the Thai Forest tradition as well the Pa-Auk group. People invest time and energy into these teachers. Although that is good, emotional attachments and identification sometimes develop. By seeing it, you are more likely to let it go.
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balive
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Re: Insights from my 21 years of practising Goenka style

Post by balive »

I have found Jed McKenna's view on teachers most interesting:
"Everyone’s grooving on the gurus, and everyone’s getting more and more spiritual, but nobody’s waking up."
If you're still unsure, take the first step... read Jed
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Zom
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Re: Insights from my 21 years of practising Goenka style

Post by Zom »

Hello balive,

Why don't you just study Pali Canon thoroughly -- without "higher guidance", "gurus", "teachers", etc.? That is -- learning from the Buddha himself. I'm sure, you will find a lot of pleasant things there -- both to think about and to practise.

There are 4 major Nikayas, well translated into English, I'd strongly recommend to buy them all (avaliable on amazon, for example) and read them unhurriedly.
fabianfred
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Re: Insights from my 21 years of practising Goenka style

Post by fabianfred »

If you are in Chiangmai I would suggest going to the temple at Wat Rampoeng for their vipassana meditation retreat. 10 days minimum for non-Thais but recommend the 26 day full retreat. Here they practice the Mahasi Sayadaw style of watching the rise and fall of the breath and also doing walking meditation.
I have been many times and also with my wife and seperately.
A different system might be what you need..... and the abbot is a great guy who takes the daily reporting for foreign meditators.

After 20 years of meditation I would expect you to have reached Sotapanna at least...and be beyond doubt....if that isn't the case there must be something wrong.

You mention above... ''the minimum amount of time for this to happen would be 10 big bangs / big crunches, that is to say, the creation and destruction of the entire universe would have to happen a minimum of 10 times (or more) and during this vast span of countless billions and billions of years, I would be at work building my paramis, and eradicating my sankharas''

I don't know where you got this from but it was never stated as necessary for one to practice for ten or more Aeons to reach enlightenment!! As we know some people attained to Stream-entry or even Arahant just whilst listening to the Buddhas Dhamma talks.

see my post here .. http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=18224
Aloof
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Re: Insights from my 21 years of practising Goenka style

Post by Aloof »

Ben wrote:
Aloof wrote:Goenka is a Hindu.
Ah, no - he is not a Hindu.
.
Ben, your reply shows a complete confidence.
While facts are not supporting you.

Goenkas are popular business marwari Hindus . Their ancestors come from Rajsthan state
of India.
In pre British Raj, India and Burma were with britishers.
At that time S.N.Coenka.s parents had settled in Burma for their business.
Goenka has a large family and most of them are settled in Bombay India. And
I have come across many of their ceremonies in last 21 years, which indicate that
they are still Hindus.

Could you eloberate on your statement that he is not a Hindu?
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pilgrim
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Re: Insights from my 21 years of practising Goenka style

Post by pilgrim »

He takes the 3 refuges and does not consider any other person or god to have equivalent authority on the path to liberation.
Aloof
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Re: Insights from my 21 years of practising Goenka style

Post by Aloof »

I have come across many teachers of Vipassana.
Almost all of them are conditioned.
They have to guide the students with CONFIDENCE.
And this confidence becomes a part of their life and makes them conditioned.
This is their occupation hazzard.

I tell all these teachers that they should analyse themselves also.
In spite of such a wonderful science of Vipassana and their involvement
in the centre of this science, I find no changes in them after 21 years.

The outer life of the teachers should have changed drastically. They should
have been happier, peacful, prosporous, and with strong family and friedly ties.
Outer life should be the mirror of their progress.

Theravadians teachings are having a lot of limitations if they strictly separate themselves
from other buddhist teaching of Guatam Buddha , particularly mahayana and lotus sutra.
Aloof
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Re: Insights from my 21 years of practising Goenka style

Post by Aloof »

Balive


you are the fourth case who feels that his condition is hardened.

Earlier I met one very senior teacher of vipassana who was full of frustations
even after 30 years of association. I met him at chamba in himalyas recuperating
in my ashram.

There was also a doctor from Pune, highly active, respected, marked for no 2 after Goenka,
who left. I have not met him since.

A family friend of mine, associated with vipassana for more than 20 years, teacher as well as
organiser, honest, hard working, dedicated, still active with vipassana centres..... often comes to me with his frustations in his family life Repeating
his teachings like a parrot.

Some times after observing them from near I feel that their conditioning is so hard, that Guatam Buddha will
leave them as last persons to be saved.
Aloof
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Re: Insights from my 21 years of practising Goenka style

Post by Aloof »

vipassana scratches off top layer of karmas and METTA is like applying medicine to the
scratched surface.
Goenka and teachers say that Vipassana with out METTA is dangerous.
I say that Vipassana without METTA IS VERY VERY dangerous.

But achieving the heights of Buddha hood via Bhoddhisattvas is the reward of
the courageous persons.

A person with a strong conviction of DO OR DIE can do vipassana without METTA.
In the process he may actually die, but even this physical death will have untold rewards.
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pilgrim
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Re: Insights from my 21 years of practising Goenka style

Post by pilgrim »

It is probably inappropriate to project your expectations on others ; on what or how a meditator should be. You see a person with problems. Really, do you expect otherwise? Just because a person meditates, does not mean he no longer experiences dukkha. This is true until he attains arahantship. This is the 1st Noble Truth.

The question should be has his meditation practice helped him? How much worse would he be if he does not practise. This is something only the meditator would know. In the meantime, what each of us should do is to turn our attention inward to watch ourselves.

Let not one seek others’ faults, things left done and undone by others, but one's own deeds done and undone. ~ Dhammapada Verse 50.
Easily seen are others' faults, hard indeed to see are one's own. ~ Dhammapada Verse 252.
He who sees others' faults, and is ever irritable, the corruptions of such a one grow. He is far from the destruction of corruptions. ~ Dhammapada Verse 253.
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Ben
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Re: Insights from my 21 years of practising Goenka style

Post by Ben »

Aloof wrote:
Ben wrote:
Aloof wrote:Goenka is a Hindu.
Ah, no - he is not a Hindu.
.
Ben, your reply shows a complete confidence.
While facts are not supporting you.

Goenkas are popular business marwari Hindus . Their ancestors come from Rajsthan state
of India.
In pre British Raj, India and Burma were with britishers.
At that time S.N.Coenka.s parents had settled in Burma for their business.
Goenka has a large family and most of them are settled in Bombay India. And
I have come across many of their ceremonies in last 21 years, which indicate that
they are still Hindus.

Could you eloberate on your statement that he is not a Hindu?
The time I have spent with him in India and Australia and with his son BL Goenka, in Myanmar.
The last time he was a practicing Hindu was in the mid 1950s before he met U Ba Khin.
kind regards,

Ben
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- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

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Aloof
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Re: Insights from my 21 years of practising Goenka style

Post by Aloof »

Ben wrote: The time I have spent with him in India and Australia and with his son BL Goenka, in Myanmar.
The last time he was a practicing Hindu was in the mid 1950s before he met U Ba Khin.
kind regards,

Ben

I am a Hindu by birth. For last 21 year every atom of my body loves Guatam buddha
and science of Buddhism along with his suttas.

Does it make me a Buddhist either by conversions or by belief?
Does Goenka or his present family says that they have converted into Buddhism?
Does even Goenka himself personally say that he got converted?
does his knowledge of Buddhism say that he should get converted?
Has their been an incident or occasion by which he got converted?
Does he as a citizen of India fill his forms informing that he is not a Hindu?
Has he said Personally to you or any other person that he is no more a Hindu any more?

I do want a confirmed answer to this from any one else for a certain personal reasons of mine.
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balive
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Re: Insights from my 21 years of practising Goenka style

Post by balive »

Thanks for the Wat Rampoeng tip, I'm going to go and check them out, it's not far from where I am.

With regards to the 10 eons, the point of that particular teaching is that even if you become enlightened in an instant, it had meant that you were practising for the previous 10 eons, and that moment was the final icing on cake which pushed you over into nibbana. Goenka teachers this point in the 45 day courses, and also Ledi Sayadaw (died 1923) and other monks I believe also teach this.

If this is true, presumably it is impossible to know where you are at in the 10 eons, the beginning, middle or end of the process.

It could also be a method to get people to focus more on sitting, because it came with instructions that in all those eons a buddha is very rare, and that you had to perfect and accumulate vast quantities of the 10 paramis to make to the final goal. And that there are 2 paramis that are only available in a Buddha sasana (which we're in) - being upekkha (equanimity) and panna (wisdom). So the ideas is that you focus a lot of energy right now to develop those 2, because you're not going to get another chance across all the eons without a Buddha.

I doubt any of this is the Buddha's original teachings.
Perhaps it's true. Or perhaps it fairy tales.

The question is, does it work to help you with your practise, or hinder you?
I haven't found it very helpful.
If you're still unsure, take the first step... read Jed
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Virgo
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Re: Insights from my 21 years of practising Goenka style

Post by Virgo »

balive wrote: With regards to the 10 eons, the point of that particular teaching is that even if you become enlightened in an instant, it had meant that you were practising for the previous 10 eons, and that moment was the final icing on cake which pushed you over into nibbana.
Hi Balive,

What person, and is nibbana a place where "one" goes?

Thanks,

Kevin
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