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Why one meal a day? - Page 18 - Dhamma Wheel

Why one meal a day?

A place to discuss health and fitness, healthy diets. A fit body makes for a fit mind.
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Anagarika
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Re: Eating after midday.

Postby Anagarika » Sat Aug 10, 2013 1:13 pm


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Indrajala
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Re: Eating after midday.

Postby Indrajala » Sat Aug 10, 2013 1:25 pm






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Anagarika
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Re: Eating after midday.

Postby Anagarika » Sat Aug 10, 2013 1:45 pm

Ven. Indrajala, again, an interesting subject. My own take on the "evolution" of the ordained community away from the Vinaya is that this evolution has lead to some of the real problems in the Buddhist ordained community. I agree with you completely that every school has had its share of tragedies and crimes. So long as we keep ordaining human beings we will have sexual abuses, financial abuses, and other crimes. Yet, my argument would be that once the Vinaya was dropped in the (8-13th century?) medieval period of Buddhist migration out of India into China and Japan in the CE, some of that 'subconscious' discipline evaporated. Monks married, ate food all day long, and drank alcohol. Monks married and had families. This evolution from a Vinaya world into the fabric of the lay society may have provided political and societal benefits ( I'm focusing on Japan here) , but in my view was the start of the slippery slope toward the erosion of the respect for the monastic community.

Here in the US, I'm starting to hear the drum beat for a return to the Vinaya ethos in the wake of the Eido Shimano, et al, scandals. I'm not suggesting that Vinaya rules are a panacea for bad conduct, but argue that once in our conscious practice or subconscious the ordained community deviate from these rather useful Vinaya sensibilities, we/they set the course for further disciplinary problems, again, in a society where it's just all to easy to find corrupt behaviors.

I've followed your travels and read your scholarship, Ven. Indrajala. I respect what you do and how you conduct your life. You may be the example of the non-Vinaya monk that makes the case for a more modern ordination platform, and who does not need the Vinaya to live an unquestioned life and has the respect of the laity around you. I just see you as the exception, rather than the rule, here in the west.

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Indrajala
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Re: Eating after midday.

Postby Indrajala » Sat Aug 10, 2013 2:04 pm






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Anagarika
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Re: Eating after midday.

Postby Anagarika » Sat Aug 10, 2013 2:43 pm

Even so, in ancient Magadha among the Shramana ascetics there were some generally held principles that defined what a śramaṇa was, as opposed to a Brahmin. I did a litlt e bit of study on the history of the śramaṇa movements in northern India, and it's very interesting. Expanded my (very limited) understanding of the evolution of sramana into Buddhism and Jainism.

I noted that the sramana movement was defined as "free form," and while there were generally accepted views of sramana practices, there was, as you put it, an emphasis on renunciation, non-violence, justice, scholarship. No Vinaya per se, but from what I can tell some fairly defined attributes that separated the śramaṇa from the Vedic practices and the lay folk.

Maybe the discussion is boiling down to the need for a strict set of rules, vs. a defined sensibility for a noble, ethical renunciate life. The śramaṇa movement seems to me to be the pathway that led Gautama to his eventual enlightenment and Dhamma. It lead to the founding of the Jains. To me, it looks all good, and it was certainly good enough for Gautama until his realization of the Middle Way.

I come back to my point, Ven. Indrajala, that you and the śramaṇas posses the internal fortitude to live the noble life. Maybe because I am a lawyer I have this idea that laws are part of the glue that holds societies together, and mitigates the potential for chaos. I see the Vinaya, in part, as a set of statutes that guide the practice, and create a foundation or sensibility that is all the more useful in today's world. As it has been said, if all men were noble, ethical and good, we wouldn't need the law.

Philosophically, as our societies create more laws and regulations, we are not necessarily becoming more ethical and less violent. I understand, you as a scholar and free thinker, feel that detailed and antiquated laws are just one more maladaptive societal tool for control. If only modern man in the west possessed the ethics and renunciate sensibilities of the ancient Magadhan śramaṇa.

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Indrajala
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Re: Eating after midday.

Postby Indrajala » Sat Aug 10, 2013 3:28 pm






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Re: Eating after midday.

Postby santa100 » Sat Aug 10, 2013 6:53 pm


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manas
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Re: Eating after midday.

Postby manas » Sat Aug 10, 2013 11:42 pm

Whenever I tried to get all my nourishment for the day between sunrise and noon, I ended up having to eat larger servings, than if I simply allowed myself to have three more moderately sized meals, spread through the entire day. It seemed to turn out that just eating less, was better for meditation practice, than sticking with this ideal of not eating after noon, which as a layman with kids to drive around, and look after (when they come over), turned out to be a bit impractical for me.

But if I did not have many duties to perform, or many practical issues to attend to, I can see how not eating after noon would be possible and even desirable, because with less need for calories, the two servings (breakfast and lunch) would not need to be so substantial. But for a layperson, I really think that striving for this ideal is not as important, as just being more moderate with food, and stopping when one has had enough, rather than continuing to eat for the taste / because of desire. And on that note, I think I used to eat much more than I needed to. One wonderful outcome of stopping out of consideration for how much the stomach can comfortably digest (as opposed to how much one wanted to eat), is that one doesn't get bloated, or get indigestion, and ironically has more energy, than if one had stuffed oneself. It's true: eating moderately one has more energy, than if one eats a lot.

My two cents' worth :)

metta :anjali:
Then the Blessed One, picking up a tiny bit of dust with the tip of his fingernail, said to the monk, "There isn't even this much form...feeling...
perception...fabrications...consciousness that is constant, lasting, eternal, not subject to change, that will stay just as it is as long as eternity."

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Indrajala
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Re: Eating after midday.

Postby Indrajala » Sun Aug 11, 2013 12:55 am






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Re: Eating after midday.

Postby daverupa » Sun Aug 11, 2013 1:25 am


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Re: Eating after midday.

Postby lyndon taylor » Sun Aug 11, 2013 4:35 am

Indrajala, with all due respect, you may be right or not about the vinaya being later in date, but not eating after 12pm is not one of the minor rules in the Vinaya, its one of the Ten precepts, only 5 of which apply to lay people as well, Im pretty damn sure the Ten precepts date back to the Buddha, you're not just asking to break some minor rules in the Vinaya, your telling monks to break the Ten precepts for Monks, which were set by the Buddha in his Lifetime, how many other precepts do you consider insignificant and not important in the modern world?????
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community, sincerely former monk John

http://trickleupeconomictheory.blogspot.com/

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Re: Eating after midday.

Postby dagon » Sun Aug 11, 2013 6:28 am

Greeting All

From my limited understanding - the provision of food to monks by the lay people is one of mutual rights and obligations. The understanding of both myself and wife is that we are and should be grateful of the opportunity of providing support to the monks and receiving instruction relating to the Dhamma.

If we look at the practical side of food being given to the monks then there are several things that need to be considered. As house holders were have duties and responsibilities that we need to preform - the family farms rice and makes an early start in the day.

The food that is offered is the same food as the family eats (we should not eat anything that we would not offer to monks and we should not expect them to eat anything less than what we eat). If the food sits around to dinner time without proper refrigeration then we might be responsible for making monks sick. We would prefer monks to eat the food before midday for this reason.

My understanding is that food from the lay community should be accepted with a certain attitude. The exemplification of this was shown by the Buddha in his last meal and his instruction relating to both the provider of that food as well as what was to happen to the food that remained. However I think that there is also a lesson to those fortunate enough to be able to provide food to monks.

As far as I understand the Monks should also be grateful to the Buddha for the food they receive in that he taught householders of their responsibilities to those who take orders. Did the Buddha teach that the monks should propagate the Dhamma – Buddha taught the Dhamma both by his words and actions. Where householders see the Monks upholding the Vinaya they respect them more and are more attentive to what they teach.

I know that my wife had the fortune to be influenced by a monk with high standards (Luang Ta Maha Bua) through his discourse on the Dhamma and his presence. It was this exposure that she credits with her maintaining the morals and ethics that she has always shown. What conduct of a monk is more highly valued by Buddha than one who teaches the Dhamma in this way?

Metta
paul

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Indrajala
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Re: Eating after midday.

Postby Indrajala » Sun Aug 11, 2013 2:09 pm






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Re: Eating after midday.

Postby Indrajala » Sun Aug 11, 2013 2:24 pm






fabianfred
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Re: Eating after midday.

Postby fabianfred » Sun Aug 11, 2013 7:25 pm

The Thais have a saying...' One meal a day supports life; a second meal supports work; a third meal supports the kilesa (gives the energy to go out at night and have fun)..
The prime work for a monk is to get himself to at least the state of Sotapanna and leave the state of worldly being ....meditation....doing the practice.....walking the walk, not just talking the talk.
One who spends most of the day meditating does not need much sustenance since not much energy is being expended. Too much food makes you sleepy....fasting makes you light and energetic in your meditation....no wasting time involved in the process of having a meal....no being too much of a burden upon the laity.
ALL Buddhists should be trying to diminish the defilements, and over eating is a big problem around the world for those who are not poor.
If you cannot stand the heat, then get out of the kitchen.....if you don't like the vinaya rules...then disrobe.
Looking for excuses to bend the rules.....complaining that the rules are irrelevant nowadays...that they were added later...etc. etc. :zzz:

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Indrajala
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Re: Eating after midday.

Postby Indrajala » Mon Aug 12, 2013 3:15 am






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Re: Eating after midday.

Postby David N. Snyder » Mon Aug 12, 2013 4:37 am

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Indrajala
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Re: Eating after midday.

Postby Indrajala » Mon Aug 12, 2013 6:53 am






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Re: Eating after midday.

Postby lyndon taylor » Mon Aug 12, 2013 6:56 am

I can't speak for anyone else, but I personally have a lot more trouble putting any faith in monks that don't keep the precepts than ones that do, indeed if they don't keep the precepts what makes them monks, shaved heads?? robes?? that's not enough for me.......
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community, sincerely former monk John

http://trickleupeconomictheory.blogspot.com/

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Re: Eating after midday.

Postby Indrajala » Mon Aug 12, 2013 7:09 am







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