YOU CANNOT POST. OUR WEB HOSTING COMPANY DECIDED TO MOVE THE SERVER TO ANOTHER LOCATION. IN THE MEANTIME, YOU CAN VIEW THIS VERSION WHICH DOES NOT ALLOW POSTING AND WILL NOT SAVE ANYTHING YOU DO ONCE THE OTHER SERVER GOES ONLINE.

Insights from my 21 years of practising Goenka style - Page 2 - Dhamma Wheel

Insights from my 21 years of practising Goenka style

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
Aloof
Posts: 100
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2013 3:57 am

Re: Insights from my 21 years of practising Goenka style

Postby Aloof » Mon Aug 12, 2013 3:01 am


User avatar
pilgrim
Posts: 1348
Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2009 2:56 pm

Re: Insights from my 21 years of practising Goenka style

Postby pilgrim » Mon Aug 12, 2013 3:09 am

He takes the 3 refuges and does not consider any other person or god to have equivalent authority on the path to liberation.

Aloof
Posts: 100
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2013 3:57 am

Re: Insights from my 21 years of practising Goenka style

Postby Aloof » Mon Aug 12, 2013 3:16 am

I have come across many teachers of Vipassana.
Almost all of them are conditioned.
They have to guide the students with CONFIDENCE.
And this confidence becomes a part of their life and makes them conditioned.
This is their occupation hazzard.

I tell all these teachers that they should analyse themselves also.
In spite of such a wonderful science of Vipassana and their involvement
in the centre of this science, I find no changes in them after 21 years.

The outer life of the teachers should have changed drastically. They should
have been happier, peacful, prosporous, and with strong family and friedly ties.
Outer life should be the mirror of their progress.

Theravadians teachings are having a lot of limitations if they strictly separate themselves
from other buddhist teaching of Guatam Buddha , particularly mahayana and lotus sutra.

Aloof
Posts: 100
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2013 3:57 am

Re: Insights from my 21 years of practising Goenka style

Postby Aloof » Mon Aug 12, 2013 5:17 am

Balive


you are the fourth case who feels that his condition is hardened.

Earlier I met one very senior teacher of vipassana who was full of frustations
even after 30 years of association. I met him at chamba in himalyas recuperating
in my ashram.

There was also a doctor from Pune, highly active, respected, marked for no 2 after Goenka,
who left. I have not met him since.

A family friend of mine, associated with vipassana for more than 20 years, teacher as well as
organiser, honest, hard working, dedicated, still active with vipassana centres..... often comes to me with his frustations in his family life Repeating
his teachings like a parrot.

Some times after observing them from near I feel that their conditioning is so hard, that Guatam Buddha will
leave them as last persons to be saved.

Aloof
Posts: 100
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2013 3:57 am

Re: Insights from my 21 years of practising Goenka style

Postby Aloof » Mon Aug 12, 2013 5:34 am

vipassana scratches off top layer of karmas and METTA is like applying medicine to the
scratched surface.
Goenka and teachers say that Vipassana with out METTA is dangerous.
I say that Vipassana without METTA IS VERY VERY dangerous.

But achieving the heights of Buddha hood via Bhoddhisattvas is the reward of
the courageous persons.

A person with a strong conviction of DO OR DIE can do vipassana without METTA.
In the process he may actually die, but even this physical death will have untold rewards.

User avatar
pilgrim
Posts: 1348
Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2009 2:56 pm

Re: Insights from my 21 years of practising Goenka style

Postby pilgrim » Mon Aug 12, 2013 6:56 am

It is probably inappropriate to project your expectations on others ; on what or how a meditator should be. You see a person with problems. Really, do you expect otherwise? Just because a person meditates, does not mean he no longer experiences dukkha. This is true until he attains arahantship. This is the 1st Noble Truth.

The question should be has his meditation practice helped him? How much worse would he be if he does not practise. This is something only the meditator would know. In the meantime, what each of us should do is to turn our attention inward to watch ourselves.

Let not one seek others’ faults, things left done and undone by others, but one's own deeds done and undone. ~ Dhammapada Verse 50.
Easily seen are others' faults, hard indeed to see are one's own. ~ Dhammapada Verse 252.
He who sees others' faults, and is ever irritable, the corruptions of such a one grow. He is far from the destruction of corruptions. ~ Dhammapada Verse 253.

User avatar
Ben
Posts: 18442
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:49 am
Location: kanamaluka

Re: Insights from my 21 years of practising Goenka style

Postby Ben » Mon Aug 12, 2013 7:01 am

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

Aloof
Posts: 100
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2013 3:57 am

Re: Insights from my 21 years of practising Goenka style

Postby Aloof » Mon Aug 12, 2013 7:44 am


User avatar
balive
Posts: 14
Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2013 11:54 pm

Re: Insights from my 21 years of practising Goenka style

Postby balive » Mon Aug 12, 2013 7:54 am

Thanks for the Wat Rampoeng tip, I'm going to go and check them out, it's not far from where I am.

With regards to the 10 eons, the point of that particular teaching is that even if you become enlightened in an instant, it had meant that you were practising for the previous 10 eons, and that moment was the final icing on cake which pushed you over into nibbana. Goenka teachers this point in the 45 day courses, and also Ledi Sayadaw (died 1923) and other monks I believe also teach this.

If this is true, presumably it is impossible to know where you are at in the 10 eons, the beginning, middle or end of the process.

It could also be a method to get people to focus more on sitting, because it came with instructions that in all those eons a buddha is very rare, and that you had to perfect and accumulate vast quantities of the 10 paramis to make to the final goal. And that there are 2 paramis that are only available in a Buddha sasana (which we're in) - being upekkha (equanimity) and panna (wisdom). So the ideas is that you focus a lot of energy right now to develop those 2, because you're not going to get another chance across all the eons without a Buddha.

I doubt any of this is the Buddha's original teachings.
Perhaps it's true. Or perhaps it fairy tales.

The question is, does it work to help you with your practise, or hinder you?
I haven't found it very helpful.
Blog: http://www.zenwakeup.com
Nothing to do with Zen. I don't know anything about Zen.
But Zen gets 11 million searches a month. Buddha only gets 4 million.
Go figure... or rather... Go on 'zen wake up!

Virgo
Posts: 1315
Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2010 10:52 pm

Re: Insights from my 21 years of practising Goenka style

Postby Virgo » Mon Aug 12, 2013 8:34 am



User avatar
balive
Posts: 14
Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2013 11:54 pm

Re: Insights from my 21 years of practising Goenka style

Postby balive » Mon Aug 12, 2013 8:45 am

Great point Kevin!
What person indeed...???
And what is nibbana, the unconditioned state...??

I cannot answer your questions :)
Blog: http://www.zenwakeup.com
Nothing to do with Zen. I don't know anything about Zen.
But Zen gets 11 million searches a month. Buddha only gets 4 million.
Go figure... or rather... Go on 'zen wake up!

User avatar
Ben
Posts: 18442
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:49 am
Location: kanamaluka

Re: Insights from my 21 years of practising Goenka style

Postby Ben » Mon Aug 12, 2013 8:58 am

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

User avatar
Kumara
Posts: 615
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2012 8:14 am

Being Somebody

Postby Kumara » Mon Aug 12, 2013 9:42 am

Though having spent a much shorter period in another tradition, I can relate well with what Balive wrote.

It's about being somebody, isn't it? All that aiming, all that striving, to be somebody.

It took quite a while for me to realise this, and quite some right effort to give it up. Like you said, having built up a sense of who you are with meditation, it's scary to let go of that "me the meditator on the way to Nibbana".

It's bhavatanha, and all the teachers and fellow meditators of my past affiliation said nothing about it to me (as far as I can recall). Another who left also spoke about the sense of being elites among Buddhists, in fact among humankind. We got caught up in it—big time.

Looking back, I find it quite funny. A chapter in this spiritual journey. A great lesson.
Last edited by Kumara on Mon Aug 12, 2013 10:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
I'm not just a monk. I'm a human being. — Sayadaw U Jotika

User avatar
Ben
Posts: 18442
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:49 am
Location: kanamaluka

Re: Being Somebody

Postby Ben » Mon Aug 12, 2013 10:14 am

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

User avatar
Kumara
Posts: 615
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2012 8:14 am

Re: Being Somebody

Postby Kumara » Mon Aug 12, 2013 10:50 am

Last edited by Kumara on Tue Aug 13, 2013 4:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
I'm not just a monk. I'm a human being. — Sayadaw U Jotika

User avatar
Ben
Posts: 18442
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:49 am
Location: kanamaluka

Re: Insights from my 21 years of practising Goenka style

Postby Ben » Mon Aug 12, 2013 11:12 am

I agree, Venerable.
Thank you for the link which I will check out later.
kind regards,

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

dhammapal
Posts: 1562
Joined: Sun Nov 01, 2009 9:23 am
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: Being Somebody

Postby dhammapal » Wed Aug 14, 2013 9:19 am







User avatar
Anagarika
Posts: 914
Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 11:25 pm

Re: Being Somebody

Postby Anagarika » Wed Aug 14, 2013 12:12 pm


practitioner
Posts: 107
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 3:30 pm

Re: Insights from my 21 years of practising Goenka style

Postby practitioner » Sat Feb 04, 2017 3:59 pm

There are more than one vipassana techniques. The one you practiced does not meet the 4 foundations of mindfulness.

I quit after doing 2 months of body scan. Something about the technique didn't sit well with me.

I practiced Mahasi mental noting of thoughts 10 months prior to Goenka retreat. 3 months after the retreat, thanks to mental noting, my mind had no more train of thoughts. During this time I did continue 2 hours of anapanasati.

I feel real good. I practice a Thai monk's teaching on mindfulness. Google The Path to Enlightenment II to learn how to do insight meditation without sitting. You can also sit if you choose to.

Follow Buddha's teaching by reading a lot helps you understand what is the path and what is not.

Sankhara talk in Goenka discourse is not Buddha's teaching. No enlightened Buddhist teacher ever mentions that. Google what Oslo has to say about Goenka.

justindesilva
Posts: 399
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2016 12:38 pm

Re: Insights from my 21 years of practising Goenka style

Postby justindesilva » Sat Feb 04, 2017 5:13 pm

When satipattana sutra is available at hand on the internet and with learned monks (or bantes) I do not see why people have to go and follow others. Meditation not necessarily needs a permanent guru but guidance from experienced one's.
If you are aware of your own thoughts and be attentive to your own doings while looking inwards in to your own thoughts meditation is not difficult. There had been people who found answers in to Darma and got in to marga phala without getting in to dhyana.
A personnel study of one's own actions of aggregates from within is sufficient material for vipassana. Eg: while eating the food on the tongue is chewed and tastes. The taste is tested enjoyed and swallowed are sufficient for an early vipassana while then your self becoming your own guru. Please try it.


Return to “General Theravāda discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 43 guests

Google Saffron, Theravada Search Engine