The 8th Precept

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The 8th Precept

Postby clw_uk » Wed Aug 14, 2013 5:25 am

Uccasayana-mahasayana veramani sikkhapadam samadiyami


I undertake the precept to refrain from lying on a high or luxurious sleeping place.


Does this mean sleeping on the floor, or sleeping on a blanket?

What is the defining line between luxury and asceticism?
“ Your mind is likewise blocked. But the right road awaits you still. Cast out your doubts, your fears and your desires, let go of grief and of hope as well, for where these rule , then the mind is their subject." Boetius
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Re: The 8th Precept

Postby lyndon taylor » Wed Aug 14, 2013 5:28 am

I've heard its 21" or less for beds and chairs, which is quite easy to accommodate.
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community that has so generously given me so much, sincerely former monk John
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Re: The 8th Precept

Postby clw_uk » Wed Aug 14, 2013 5:36 am

lyndon taylor wrote:I've heard its 21" or less for beds and chairs, which is quite easy to accommodate.


Hmm but my question is more about mind states

I suppose what I'm asking is if its good for someone, like me, who sleeps in a big comfortable bed to sleep on the floor to experience the dukkha of not having a comfortable bed (and so grow mindfulness)

Or would that be asceticism ...?
“ Your mind is likewise blocked. But the right road awaits you still. Cast out your doubts, your fears and your desires, let go of grief and of hope as well, for where these rule , then the mind is their subject." Boetius
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Re: The 8th Precept

Postby Ben » Wed Aug 14, 2013 5:56 am

clw_uk wrote:
lyndon taylor wrote:I've heard its 21" or less for beds and chairs, which is quite easy to accommodate.


Hmm but my question is more about mind states

I suppose what I'm asking is if its good for someone, like me, who sleeps in a big comfortable bed to sleep on the floor to experience the dukkha of not having a comfortable bed (and so grow mindfulness)

Or would that be asceticism ...?

Hi Craig,

When I am on retreat, I sleep on a thin mattress.
The idea of the precept is that one doesn't indulge in the sensual pleasure of comfortable bed. Sleeping on a thin mattress will certainly ensure that you experience the dukkha of not being in your own comfortable bed, but it is more conducive to minfulness by only sleeping when you need it rather than dozing and potentially cultivating states of sloth and torpor.
kind regards,

Ben
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Re: The 8th Precept

Postby clw_uk » Wed Aug 14, 2013 5:59 am

Ben wrote:
clw_uk wrote:
lyndon taylor wrote:I've heard its 21" or less for beds and chairs, which is quite easy to accommodate.


Hmm but my question is more about mind states

I suppose what I'm asking is if its good for someone, like me, who sleeps in a big comfortable bed to sleep on the floor to experience the dukkha of not having a comfortable bed (and so grow mindfulness)

Or would that be asceticism ...?

Hi Craig,

When I am on retreat, I sleep on a thin mattress.
The idea of the precept is that one doesn't indulge in the sensual pleasure of comfortable bed. Sleeping on a thin mattress will certainly ensure that you experience the dukkha of not being in your own comfortable bed, but it is more conducive to minfulness by only sleeping when you need it rather than dozing and potentially cultivating states of sloth and torpor.
kind regards,

Ben


Thanks Ben :)

I guess what I'm wary of is taking it too far and sleeping in such a way where I dont sleep, which will affect my health and performance in work etc, yet I don't want to sleep on a bed that gives rise to sloth

:juggling:
“ Your mind is likewise blocked. But the right road awaits you still. Cast out your doubts, your fears and your desires, let go of grief and of hope as well, for where these rule , then the mind is their subject." Boetius
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Re: The 8th Precept

Postby Ben » Wed Aug 14, 2013 6:09 am

Just take it easy and gradually, Craig.
Perhaps its something you might like to observe on the Uposotha (or on your weekend). Sleeping on a thin mattress Its something that I have found that I have gotten used to.
Since the beginning of the year I've been doing some camping and I reckon I get a better sleep on my thermarest insulated inflatable roll in a tent than I do in my bed at home.
kind regards,

Ben
"One cannot step twice into the same river, nor can one grasp any mortal substance in a stable condition, but it scatters and again gathers; it forms and dissolves, and approaches and departs."

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Re: The 8th Precept

Postby Cittasanto » Thu Aug 15, 2013 7:14 pm

clw_uk wrote:
Uccasayana-mahasayana veramani sikkhapadam samadiyami


I undertake the precept to refrain from lying on a high or luxurious sleeping place.


Does this mean sleeping on the floor, or sleeping on a blanket?

What is the defining line between luxury and asceticism?

Q1
The length mentioned in the vinaya equivalent of this rule is only for the legs (I would include any part not the seat or part one lies on such as a bed stead) of the "resting place", not of the mattress, cushion....
the actual length is hard to assess accurately. but I favour Ajahn Thanissaros interpretation which can be found in pācittiyā 87 and discussed in Appendix 2. But I have seen the maximum height given as up to 65cm before.

Q2 (I read the rest of the thread before answering this one)
the motive behind undertaking this precept is to be able to be satisfied with what is at hand, we cannot always have a comfy bed (or any luxury for that matter), or expect it as a given so being able to relinquish luxuries (even if it is by choice or once a week) helps us face hardship more equanimously.
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
With Metta
Upāsaka Cittasanto
Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."
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Re: The 8th Precept

Postby pegembara » Fri Aug 16, 2013 4:53 am

Ben wrote:Just take it easy and gradually, Craig.
Perhaps its something you might like to observe on the Uposotha (or on your weekend). Sleeping on a thin mattress Its something that I have found that I have gotten used to.
Since the beginning of the year I've been doing some camping and I reckon I get a better sleep on my thermarest insulated inflatable roll in a tent than I do in my bed at home.
kind regards,

Ben


In that the the 8th precept might entail sleeping on "luxurious" beds.
:tongue:
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.
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