Women cannot become Buddhas?

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
User avatar
Ajisai
Posts: 56
Joined: Mon Aug 12, 2013 2:25 am

Women cannot become Buddhas?

Post by Ajisai »

Hi,

I read somewhere on this forum (though cannot remember where) that women cannot become Buddhas. Is it true and why?
Being a women myself, does it mean that my practice can only aim for a next life in which I could reach enlightment?
I am not really seeking for enlightment really; I just want to understand the Dhamma and practice the Dhamma at its fullest. Even though, I would like to know how things are.
User avatar
appicchato
Posts: 1602
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:47 am
Location: Bridge on the River Kwae

Re: Women cannot become Buddhas?

Post by appicchato »

Ajisai wrote:...does it mean that my practice can only aim for a next life in which I could reach enlightenment?
Welcome to DhammaWheel Ajisai...

Not being certain of the specifics I can't comment confidently on your query, but did want to address your question above...no, it doesn't mean that...it is possible to become enlightened, by both male and female, in this very lifetime...this is my understanding, and I'm sorry I don't have a reference for you...all the very best in your endeavors...
Dhammavaro
Posts: 22
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2010 5:51 pm

Re: Women cannot become Buddhas?

Post by Dhammavaro »

If you believe that you are a women or men...you have no chance.
^^The Greatest Gift to Buddha, our Parents, our teacher..is to open the eye of dhamma^^
User avatar
Aloka
Posts: 7797
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2009 2:51 pm

Re: Women cannot become Buddhas?

Post by Aloka »

Ajisai wrote:Hi,

I read somewhere on this forum (though cannot remember where) that women cannot become Buddhas. Is it true and why?
Being a women myself, does it mean that my practice can only aim for a next life in which I could reach enlightment?
I am not really seeking for enlightment really; I just want to understand the Dhamma and practice the Dhamma at its fullest. Even though, I would like to know how things are.
Hi Ajisai,

I'm a woman too and as far as I know, women became enlightened arahants in the time of the Buddha as well as men and can still do so now.

Here's a sutta I really like:


SN 5.2 Soma Sutta: Sister Soma

At Savatthi. Then, early in the morning, Soma the nun put on her robes and, taking her bowl & outer robe, went into Savatthi for alms. When she had gone for alms in Savatthi and had returned from her alms round, after her meal she went to the Grove of the Blind to spend the day. Having gone deep into the Grove of the Blind, she sat down at the foot of a tree for the day's abiding.

Then Mara the Evil One, wanting to arouse fear, horripilation, & terror in her, wanting to make her fall away from concentration, approached her & addressed her in verse:


"That which is to be attained by seers
— the place so very hard to reach —
women
can't
— with their two-inch discernment —
attain."

Then the thought occurred to Soma the nun: "Now who has recited this verse — a human being or a non-human one?" Then it occurred to her: "This is Mara the Evil One, who has recited this verse wanting to arouse fear, horripilation, & terror in me, wanting to make me fall away from concentration."

Then, having understood that "This is Mara the Evil One," she replied to him in verses:

"What difference
does being a woman make
when the mind's well-centered,
when knowledge is progressing,
seeing clearly, rightly,
into the Dhamma.

Anyone who thinks
'I'm a woman'
or 'a man'
or 'Am I anything at all?' —
that's who Mara's
fit to address."

Then Mara the Evil One — sad & dejected at realizing, "Soma the nun knows me" — vanished right there.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
With metta,

Aloka
Last edited by Aloka on Sat Aug 17, 2013 8:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Modus.Ponens
Posts: 3853
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 2:38 am
Location: Gallifrey

Re: Women cannot become Buddhas?

Post by Modus.Ponens »

There were many enlightened women who practiced the Buddha's path to get there.

In Theravada there is a distinction between arahat and buddha. We call arahat to every enlightened person. We call a buddha any person who has rediscovered the dhamma by himself, in a time where it is forgoten, and attained enlightenment.

The bit you read was probably that women can't become buddhas, not arahats. That's a different question. I see no reason to believe this as a categorical statement. What I mean is that if we were living in a matriarcal society in which there was no dhamma, I'm sure that there would be the possibility of a female buddha to appear.

Anyway, the important part is that you can attain enlightenment in this life if you practice acordingly.
'This is peace, this is exquisite — the resolution of all fabrications; the relinquishment of all acquisitions; the ending of craving; dispassion; cessation; Unbinding.' - Jhana Sutta
User avatar
Modus.Ponens
Posts: 3853
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 2:38 am
Location: Gallifrey

Re: Women cannot become Buddhas?

Post by Modus.Ponens »

Beautiful sutta, Aloka. Thank you. :)
'This is peace, this is exquisite — the resolution of all fabrications; the relinquishment of all acquisitions; the ending of craving; dispassion; cessation; Unbinding.' - Jhana Sutta
User avatar
Ajisai
Posts: 56
Joined: Mon Aug 12, 2013 2:25 am

Re: Women cannot become Buddhas?

Post by Ajisai »

Everyone, thank you for your answers, it is all very clear now !

First it seems I mistook the Buddha term with the arahat one. I'm new to Buddhism and I still have a lot to learn :reading:

Dhammavaro, your answer if short but full of meaning.
Aloka, thanks for this sutta, it is great (and it is just like Dahammavaro said above you).

That is also why I could not get why 'men could do it but women could not'. It did not make sense to what I had read so far.

Thanks again !
Jhana4
Posts: 1331
Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2011 5:20 pm
Location: U.S.A., Northeast

Re: Women cannot become Buddhas?

Post by Jhana4 »

Modus.Ponens wrote:There were many enlightened women who practiced the Buddha's path to get there.

In Theravada there is a distinction between arahat and buddha. We call arahat to every enlightened person. We call a buddha any person who has rediscovered the dhamma by himself, in a time where it is forgoten, and attained enlightenment.

The bit you read was probably that women can't become buddhas, not arahats. That's a different question. I see no reason to believe this as a categorical statement. What I mean is that if we were living in a matriarcal society in which there was no dhamma, I'm sure that there would be the possibility of a female buddha to appear.

Anyway, the important part is that you can attain enlightenment in this life if you practice acordingly.
Do not Buddhas have abilities that arahants do not, like the ability to communicate the dhamma well?
In reading the scriptures, there are two kinds of mistakes:
One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.
User avatar
equilibrium
Posts: 522
Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2012 11:07 am

Re: Women cannot become Buddhas?

Post by equilibrium »

Jhana4 wrote:Do not Buddhas have abilities that arahants do not, like the ability to communicate the dhamma well?
Buddhas has abilities that Arahants will not have.....and within Arahants, they have different abilities too.
User avatar
Modus.Ponens
Posts: 3853
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 2:38 am
Location: Gallifrey

Re: Women cannot become Buddhas?

Post by Modus.Ponens »

Jhana4 wrote: Do not Buddhas have abilities that arahants do not, like the ability to communicate the dhamma well?
There was a very good discussion a few months ago about the (absence of) differences between some arahats and the Buddha. I remember Tiltbillings participated actively in that one, so maybe he knows which thread is it.
'This is peace, this is exquisite — the resolution of all fabrications; the relinquishment of all acquisitions; the ending of craving; dispassion; cessation; Unbinding.' - Jhana Sutta
User avatar
DNS
Site Admin
Posts: 17169
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:15 am
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada, Estados Unidos de América
Contact:

Re: Women cannot become Buddhas?

Post by DNS »

Inspiration from enlightened nuns

The Buddha was asked in so many words, "is there even one woman nun who is fully enlightened?" The Buddha responded, "There are not only one hundred . . . or five hundred, but far more bhikkhunis (nuns), my disciples, who by realizing for themselves with direct knowledge here and now enter upon and abide in the deliverance of mind and deliverance by wisdom . . ." Sutta 73 Majjhima Nikaya and also in other suttas too.
Kingdubrock
Posts: 32
Joined: Wed Aug 14, 2013 1:25 am

Re: Women cannot become Buddhas?

Post by Kingdubrock »

I don't know about Buddha's - male or female. I have never met one, or at least that I could discern. Or anyone worth thinkng about who claims to be one. Only people who claim or believe their teacher or some well loved person is one.
I have had about 6 close, in-person teachers, and value them all, but the ones who really had the most profound and lasting effect on me were women. This even carries out into non-Buddhist contexts. Almost all the doctors, writers, teachers, thinkers, mentors etc who have really indluenced and helped me, come to think of it have been women.
My guess is, if there is scripture that says otherwise it was slipped in there by a "respected" monk who was getting his enlightenment butt kicked by a woman. :tongue:
User avatar
Aloka
Posts: 7797
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2009 2:51 pm

Re: Women cannot become Buddhas?

Post by Aloka »

Kingdubrock wrote:
My guess is, if there is scripture that says otherwise it was slipped in there by a "respected" monk who was getting his enlightenment butt kicked by a woman. :tongue:
I don't know anything about that, but you might like this verse:
I.11 — Mutta {v. 11}

So freed! So thoroughly freed am I! —
from three crooked things set free:
from mortar, pestle,
& crooked old husband.
Having uprooted the craving
that leads to becoming,
I'm set free from aging & death

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... l#sutta-11
:)
Kingdubrock
Posts: 32
Joined: Wed Aug 14, 2013 1:25 am

Re: Women cannot become Buddhas?

Post by Kingdubrock »

Aloka wrote:
Kingdubrock wrote:
My guess is, if there is scripture that says otherwise it was slipped in there by a "respected" monk who was getting his enlightenment butt kicked by a woman. :tongue:
I don't know anything about that, but you might like this verse:
I.11 — Mutta {v. 11}

So freed! So thoroughly freed am I! —
from three crooked things set free:
from mortar, pestle,
& crooked old husband.
Having uprooted the craving
that leads to becoming,
I'm set free from aging & death

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... l#sutta-11
:)
:clap:
User avatar
cooran
Posts: 8503
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2009 11:32 pm
Location: Queensland, Australia

Re: Women cannot become Buddhas?

Post by cooran »

This article may be of interest:

Arahants, Bodhisattvas and Buddhas - by Bhikkhu Bodhi

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... ttvas.html

With metta,
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---
Post Reply