breathing is OK to reach the SECOND jhana?

The cultivation of calm or tranquility and the development of concentration
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lotus flower
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breathing is OK to reach the SECOND jhana?

Post by lotus flower »

Hello forum members!
I would to ask breathing is okay to reach the second jhana? i ask it because i know an other way to acchieve the second jhana and i used it some months but i think that way isn't good to me. What do you think about it?
We found the teaching of the Buddha. Be grateful for it... We can meditate... Be grateful for it... We know that this universe is the samsara. Be grateful for it... We have THE CHANCE TO ATTAIN NIBBANA. Be grateful for it... :buddha1: :buddha2:
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mirco
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Re: breathing is OK to reach the SECOND jhana?

Post by mirco »

Hi lotus flower,
lotus flower wrote:I would to ask breathing is okay to reach the second jhana?
i ask it because i know an other way to acchieve the second jhana but i think that way isn't good to me.
What do you think about it?
I think no one reaches jhana - we fall into. It happens, if the conditions are right.
And yes, breath is a suitable object for sāti, I think.
And of course: tell about your other way ;-)

Sincerely,
Mirco
lotus flower
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Re: breathing is OK to reach the SECOND jhana?

Post by lotus flower »

mirco wrote:Hi lotus flower,
lotus flower wrote:I would to ask breathing is okay to reach the second jhana?
i ask it because i know an other way to acchieve the second jhana but i think that way isn't good to me.
What do you think about it?
I think no one reaches jhana - we fall into. It happens, if the conditions are right.
And yes, breath is a suitable object for sāti, I think.
And of course: tell about your other way ;-)

Sincerely,
Mirco
my other way what i used: do vipassana, try tough empty. but it is very hard. after some months i was angry..... :) i heard that technique from an ex buddhist teacher.
We found the teaching of the Buddha. Be grateful for it... We can meditate... Be grateful for it... We know that this universe is the samsara. Be grateful for it... We have THE CHANCE TO ATTAIN NIBBANA. Be grateful for it... :buddha1: :buddha2:
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Crazy cloud
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Re: breathing is OK to reach the SECOND jhana?

Post by Crazy cloud »

I had that impression that before one enters "Jhana", the breath has alredy gone - and if you still can sense your own breathing, your not into jhana yet ..

I might be wrong :)

metta
If you didn't care
What happened to me
And I didn't care for you

We would zig-zag our way
Through the boredom and pain
Occasionally glancing up through the rain

Wondering which of the
Buggers to blame
And watching for pigs on the wing
- Roger Waters
lotus flower
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Re: breathing is OK to reach the SECOND jhana?

Post by lotus flower »

Crazy cloud wrote:I had that impression that before one enters "Jhana", the breath has alredy gone - and if you still can sense your own breathing, your not into jhana yet ..

I might be wrong :)

metta
i heard it from a teacher also. but what is the reason why you also say it? what is the problem with the breathing??
We found the teaching of the Buddha. Be grateful for it... We can meditate... Be grateful for it... We know that this universe is the samsara. Be grateful for it... We have THE CHANCE TO ATTAIN NIBBANA. Be grateful for it... :buddha1: :buddha2:
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Crazy cloud
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Re: breathing is OK to reach the SECOND jhana?

Post by Crazy cloud »

lotus flower wrote:
Crazy cloud wrote:I had that impression that before one enters "Jhana", the breath has alredy gone - and if you still can sense your own breathing, your not into jhana yet ..

I might be wrong :)

metta
i heard it from a teacher also. but what is the reason why you also say it? what is the problem with the breathing??
I mention it because I put great trust in our wise ajhans. And that it might clearify and be of some help for those who might misunderstand how the stages of jhana is reached.

:)
If you didn't care
What happened to me
And I didn't care for you

We would zig-zag our way
Through the boredom and pain
Occasionally glancing up through the rain

Wondering which of the
Buggers to blame
And watching for pigs on the wing
- Roger Waters
lotus flower
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Re: breathing is OK to reach the SECOND jhana?

Post by lotus flower »

Crazy cloud wrote:
lotus flower wrote:
Crazy cloud wrote:I had that impression that before one enters "Jhana", the breath has alredy gone - and if you still can sense your own breathing, your not into jhana yet ..

I might be wrong :)

metta
i heard it from a teacher also. but what is the reason why you also say it? what is the problem with the breathing??
I mention it because I put great trust in our wise ajhans. And that it might clearify and be of some help for those who might misunderstand how the stages of jhana is reached.

:)
you say it, may it is the truth but please say too what is the way to reach the second jhana without focus the mind on the breathing:)
We found the teaching of the Buddha. Be grateful for it... We can meditate... Be grateful for it... We know that this universe is the samsara. Be grateful for it... We have THE CHANCE TO ATTAIN NIBBANA. Be grateful for it... :buddha1: :buddha2:
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Crazy cloud
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Re: breathing is OK to reach the SECOND jhana?

Post by Crazy cloud »

lotus flower wrote:
you say it, may it is the truth but please say too what is the way to reach the second jhana without focus the mind on the breathing:)
And so I will - here's a exellent dhammatalk on the subject, by Ajhan Brahm:



And I put also day number 4 here - its about "nimitta". If you listen to this talk before nr 5, i think that it will give you an nice overview. They go togheter, as I have come to understand it.



Have fun!

:)
If you didn't care
What happened to me
And I didn't care for you

We would zig-zag our way
Through the boredom and pain
Occasionally glancing up through the rain

Wondering which of the
Buggers to blame
And watching for pigs on the wing
- Roger Waters
lotus flower
Posts: 206
Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2013 2:04 pm

Re: breathing is OK to reach the SECOND jhana?

Post by lotus flower »

Crazy cloud wrote:
lotus flower wrote:
you say it, may it is the truth but please say too what is the way to reach the second jhana without focus the mind on the breathing:)
And so I will - here's a exellent dhammatalk on the subject, by Ajhan Brahm:



And I put also day number 4 here - its about "nimitta". If you listen to this talk before nr 5, i think that it will give you an nice overview. They go togheter, as I have come to understand it.



Have fun!

:)
thank you very much but it is very long and i can't speak english very-very good. i can't understand all words, and it is very long. Could you write what's the time in the video when he speak about the second jhana, or when he speak about breathing isn't a good way? Please!:) ( i hope you understand what i want say: instance 15:25, or 25:38)
i read in/on some places that breathing is either good nor bad. i read breathing isn't 100 % good for 2.,3.,4., etc jhanas.
i read a book's quotes about the good way to the second jhana is go to the second jhana from the first jhana, and we waiting in the first jhana (un)till our thoughts die. don't destroy the thoughts just wait for the empty......
We found the teaching of the Buddha. Be grateful for it... We can meditate... Be grateful for it... We know that this universe is the samsara. Be grateful for it... We have THE CHANCE TO ATTAIN NIBBANA. Be grateful for it... :buddha1: :buddha2:
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mirco
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Re: breathing is OK to reach the SECOND jhana?

Post by mirco »

I decided not to engage myself anymore in discussions about which teacher tells what truth.
Buddha Dhamma will reveal to the individual, when the time is right.
May everyone experience Nibbana this very lifetime!

Be Well :-) !
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fig tree
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Re: breathing is OK to reach the SECOND jhana?

Post by fig tree »

Crazy cloud wrote:I had that impression that before one enters "Jhana", the breath has alredy gone - and if you still can sense your own breathing, your not into jhana yet ..

I might be wrong :)

metta
If I remember correctly, in Knowing and Seeing, Pa Auk Sayadaw says that your breath doesn't actually stop until 4th jhana, even if you stop paying attention to it, switch to paying attention to a nimitta or whatever. I think this is a standard position.

Fig Tree
lotus flower
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Re: breathing is OK to reach the SECOND jhana?

Post by lotus flower »

fig tree wrote:
Crazy cloud wrote:I had that impression that before one enters "Jhana", the breath has alredy gone - and if you still can sense your own breathing, your not into jhana yet ..

I might be wrong :)

metta
If I remember correctly, in Knowing and Seeing, Pa Auk Sayadaw says that your breath doesn't actually stop until 4th jhana, even if you stop paying attention to it, switch to paying attention to a nimitta or whatever. I think this is a standard position.

Fig Tree
Dear Fig Tree! you have got a truth, i read it many places also. :)
i think we can reach 4 jhana with the anapanasati. the other way is the visuddhimagga. i don't think that is better or worse than anapanasati.
We found the teaching of the Buddha. Be grateful for it... We can meditate... Be grateful for it... We know that this universe is the samsara. Be grateful for it... We have THE CHANCE TO ATTAIN NIBBANA. Be grateful for it... :buddha1: :buddha2:
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