breathing is OK to reach the SECOND jhana?

Discussion of Samatha bhavana and Jhana bhavana.
lotus flower
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breathing is OK to reach the SECOND jhana?

Postby lotus flower » Sat Aug 17, 2013 11:28 am

Hello forum members!
I would to ask breathing is okay to reach the second jhana? i ask it because i know an other way to acchieve the second jhana and i used it some months but i think that way isn't good to me. What do you think about it?
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mirco
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Re: breathing is OK to reach the SECOND jhana?

Postby mirco » Sat Aug 17, 2013 11:54 am

Hi lotus flower,
lotus flower wrote:I would to ask breathing is okay to reach the second jhana?
i ask it because i know an other way to acchieve the second jhana but i think that way isn't good to me.
What do you think about it?

I think no one reaches jhana - we fall into. It happens, if the conditions are right.
And yes, breath is a suitable object for sāti, I think.
And of course: tell about your other way ;-)

Sincerely,
Mirco
I get what I give

lotus flower
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Re: breathing is OK to reach the SECOND jhana?

Postby lotus flower » Sat Aug 17, 2013 12:44 pm

mirco wrote:Hi lotus flower,
lotus flower wrote:I would to ask breathing is okay to reach the second jhana?
i ask it because i know an other way to acchieve the second jhana but i think that way isn't good to me.
What do you think about it?

I think no one reaches jhana - we fall into. It happens, if the conditions are right.
And yes, breath is a suitable object for sāti, I think.
And of course: tell about your other way ;-)

Sincerely,
Mirco


my other way what i used: do vipassana, try tough empty. but it is very hard. after some months i was angry..... :) i heard that technique from an ex buddhist teacher.
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Crazy cloud
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Re: breathing is OK to reach the SECOND jhana?

Postby Crazy cloud » Sat Aug 17, 2013 12:51 pm

I had that impression that before one enters "Jhana", the breath has alredy gone - and if you still can sense your own breathing, your not into jhana yet ..

I might be wrong :)

metta
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lotus flower
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Re: breathing is OK to reach the SECOND jhana?

Postby lotus flower » Sat Aug 17, 2013 1:00 pm

Crazy cloud wrote:I had that impression that before one enters "Jhana", the breath has alredy gone - and if you still can sense your own breathing, your not into jhana yet ..

I might be wrong :)

metta


i heard it from a teacher also. but what is the reason why you also say it? what is the problem with the breathing??
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Re: breathing is OK to reach the SECOND jhana?

Postby Crazy cloud » Sat Aug 17, 2013 1:11 pm

lotus flower wrote:
Crazy cloud wrote:I had that impression that before one enters "Jhana", the breath has alredy gone - and if you still can sense your own breathing, your not into jhana yet ..

I might be wrong :)

metta


i heard it from a teacher also. but what is the reason why you also say it? what is the problem with the breathing??


I mention it because I put great trust in our wise ajhans. And that it might clearify and be of some help for those who might misunderstand how the stages of jhana is reached.

:)
your name Mori means forest like the infinite fresh green distances of your blindness

lotus flower
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Re: breathing is OK to reach the SECOND jhana?

Postby lotus flower » Sat Aug 17, 2013 1:23 pm

Crazy cloud wrote:
lotus flower wrote:
Crazy cloud wrote:I had that impression that before one enters "Jhana", the breath has alredy gone - and if you still can sense your own breathing, your not into jhana yet ..

I might be wrong :)

metta


i heard it from a teacher also. but what is the reason why you also say it? what is the problem with the breathing??


I mention it because I put great trust in our wise ajhans. And that it might clearify and be of some help for those who might misunderstand how the stages of jhana is reached.

:)


you say it, may it is the truth but please say too what is the way to reach the second jhana without focus the mind on the breathing:)
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Crazy cloud
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Re: breathing is OK to reach the SECOND jhana?

Postby Crazy cloud » Sat Aug 17, 2013 3:54 pm

lotus flower wrote:
you say it, may it is the truth but please say too what is the way to reach the second jhana without focus the mind on the breathing:)


And so I will - here's a exellent dhammatalk on the subject, by Ajhan Brahm:



And I put also day number 4 here - its about "nimitta". If you listen to this talk before nr 5, i think that it will give you an nice overview. They go togheter, as I have come to understand it.



Have fun!

:)
your name Mori means forest like the infinite fresh green distances of your blindness

lotus flower
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Re: breathing is OK to reach the SECOND jhana?

Postby lotus flower » Sat Aug 17, 2013 6:54 pm

Crazy cloud wrote:
lotus flower wrote:
you say it, may it is the truth but please say too what is the way to reach the second jhana without focus the mind on the breathing:)


And so I will - here's a exellent dhammatalk on the subject, by Ajhan Brahm:



And I put also day number 4 here - its about "nimitta". If you listen to this talk before nr 5, i think that it will give you an nice overview. They go togheter, as I have come to understand it.



Have fun!

:)


thank you very much but it is very long and i can't speak english very-very good. i can't understand all words, and it is very long. Could you write what's the time in the video when he speak about the second jhana, or when he speak about breathing isn't a good way? Please!:) ( i hope you understand what i want say: instance 15:25, or 25:38)
i read in/on some places that breathing is either good nor bad. i read breathing isn't 100 % good for 2.,3.,4., etc jhanas.
i read a book's quotes about the good way to the second jhana is go to the second jhana from the first jhana, and we waiting in the first jhana (un)till our thoughts die. don't destroy the thoughts just wait for the empty......
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mirco
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Re: breathing is OK to reach the SECOND jhana?

Postby mirco » Sat Aug 17, 2013 7:49 pm

I decided not to engage myself anymore in discussions about which teacher tells what truth.
Buddha Dhamma will reveal to the individual, when the time is right.
May everyone experience Nibbana this very lifetime!

Be Well :-) !
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fig tree
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Re: breathing is OK to reach the SECOND jhana?

Postby fig tree » Sun Aug 18, 2013 11:14 pm

Crazy cloud wrote:I had that impression that before one enters "Jhana", the breath has alredy gone - and if you still can sense your own breathing, your not into jhana yet ..

I might be wrong :)

metta

If I remember correctly, in Knowing and Seeing, Pa Auk Sayadaw says that your breath doesn't actually stop until 4th jhana, even if you stop paying attention to it, switch to paying attention to a nimitta or whatever. I think this is a standard position.

Fig Tree

lotus flower
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Re: breathing is OK to reach the SECOND jhana?

Postby lotus flower » Mon Aug 19, 2013 7:07 pm

fig tree wrote:
Crazy cloud wrote:I had that impression that before one enters "Jhana", the breath has alredy gone - and if you still can sense your own breathing, your not into jhana yet ..

I might be wrong :)

metta

If I remember correctly, in Knowing and Seeing, Pa Auk Sayadaw says that your breath doesn't actually stop until 4th jhana, even if you stop paying attention to it, switch to paying attention to a nimitta or whatever. I think this is a standard position.

Fig Tree


Dear Fig Tree! you have got a truth, i read it many places also. :)
i think we can reach 4 jhana with the anapanasati. the other way is the visuddhimagga. i don't think that is better or worse than anapanasati.
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