Distorting the Dharma [Advice]

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Re: Distorting the Dharma [Advice]

Postby clw_uk » Sat Aug 17, 2013 10:51 pm

I do not know about university politics but the fourth Noble Truth is wrong.


The fourth noble truth is fine, as is the 2nd and 3rd

The vagueness of the first is the problem here
“ Your mind is likewise blocked. But the right road awaits you still. Cast out your doubts, your fears and your desires, let go of grief and of hope as well, for where these rule , then the mind is their subject." Boetius
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Re: Distorting the Dharma [Advice]

Postby dagon » Sat Aug 17, 2013 11:24 pm

You may find this article interesting and give you some ideas
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/higher- ... 6416991983
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Re: Distorting the Dharma [Advice]

Postby David N. Snyder » Sat Aug 17, 2013 11:34 pm

clw_uk wrote:The fourth noble truth is fine, as is the 2nd and 3rd

The vagueness of the first is the problem here


Cultivate the path


This is an okay superficial definition for the 4th, but what they have after that is probably off:

that is keep doing 1-3


We don't cultivate dukkha, we want to eliminate it. :tongue:

But you're right, numbers 2 and 3 are not that bad. Samudaya & Nirodha could be worded that way, for the modern reader / skillful means; understanding the origin of craving and letting go of craving.

So overall, I give the author's version of the 4 noble truths a 50% which is almost a passing score.
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Re: Distorting the Dharma [Advice]

Postby clw_uk » Sat Aug 17, 2013 11:41 pm

We don't cultivate dukkha, we want to eliminate it.


Hmm see "wanting to eliminate dukkha" is craving ...
“ Your mind is likewise blocked. But the right road awaits you still. Cast out your doubts, your fears and your desires, let go of grief and of hope as well, for where these rule , then the mind is their subject." Boetius
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Re: Distorting the Dharma [Advice]

Postby David N. Snyder » Sat Aug 17, 2013 11:46 pm

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Re: Distorting the Dharma [Advice]

Postby clw_uk » Sat Aug 17, 2013 11:49 pm

David N. Snyder wrote:Chanda not Tanhā



That's nice but wanting to get rid of dukkha, is aversion
“ Your mind is likewise blocked. But the right road awaits you still. Cast out your doubts, your fears and your desires, let go of grief and of hope as well, for where these rule , then the mind is their subject." Boetius
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Re: Distorting the Dharma [Advice]

Postby David N. Snyder » Sun Aug 18, 2013 12:55 am

clw_uk wrote:That's nice but wanting to get rid of dukkha, is aversion


Hi Mara (you're good at playing devil's advocate) :tongue:

Okay, look at dukkha for what it is, not with attachment or aversion, just upekkha.

Better?
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Re: Distorting the Dharma [Advice]

Postby SDC » Tue Aug 20, 2013 4:23 pm

Well he did say—in the preceding paragraph—that he was adjusting them to show them as actions. So he isn’t trying to say they are the four noble truths. Let’s at least give him that. And he wouldn’t be the first to modify the dhamma in an attempt to simplify it, thereby obscuring it even further—that’s been happening for 2000 years. At least he admitted it beforehand which doesn’t completely mislead people. Having said that, his attempt is crap.

Some additional words for the university: When faced with such a massive body of literature (and a great deal of hot air) it is difficult to know what to choose to represent it. Obviously it is best to start with something simple. However Mr. Whateverhisface’s book has made a critical error with a concept that is supposed to represent the whole what the Buddha taught. Setting people up with confusing, streamlined information can make further understanding very daunting. I think it would be beneficial and responsible to provide material that does not take such careless risks and provides a bland and simple knowledge base which—contrary to popular belief—will better prepare people for what they will encounter if they choose to study further.
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Re: Distorting the Dharma [Advice]

Postby nowheat » Tue Aug 20, 2013 8:19 pm

Maybe you could rewrite the little block, yourself, to more effectively reflect what Batchelor actually said which was:

Anguish, he says, is to be understood, its origins to be let go of, its cessation to be realized, and the path to be cultivated.


All taken, of course, from the first sermon. If you try to do a better job of expressing what the author of the text book expressed badly, at the very least you might find what I found when I tried: it's not an easy thing to do in such a small space, in a way that a new student will understand. At best, they might be grateful and fix the error with your revision.

:namaste:
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Re: Distorting the Dharma [Advice]

Postby nowheat » Tue Aug 20, 2013 8:26 pm

I came up with:

1. Attend to suffering to understand its origins.
2. Practice letting go of its origins.
3. Experience the way suffering then stops.
4. Continue to cultivate these skills that stop the suffering.

:namaste:
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