Should Wives Be Obedient?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
Jhana4
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Re: Should Wives Be Obedient?

Postby Jhana4 » Tue Aug 20, 2013 1:52 pm

In reading the scriptures, there are two kinds of mistakes:
One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.

dagon
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Re: Should Wives Be Obedient?

Postby dagon » Tue Aug 20, 2013 2:33 pm


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Modus.Ponens
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Re: Should Wives Be Obedient?

Postby Modus.Ponens » Tue Aug 20, 2013 4:17 pm

He turns his mind away from those phenomena, and having done so, inclines his mind to the property of deathlessness: 'This is peace, this is exquisite — the resolution of all fabrications; the relinquishment of all acquisitions; the ending of craving; dispassion; cessation; Unbinding.'
(Jhana Sutta - Thanissaro Bhikkhu translation)

Jhana4
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Re: Should Wives Be Obedient?

Postby Jhana4 » Wed Aug 21, 2013 12:42 am

In reading the scriptures, there are two kinds of mistakes:
One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.

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Modus.Ponens
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Re: Should Wives Be Obedient?

Postby Modus.Ponens » Wed Aug 21, 2013 1:25 am

He turns his mind away from those phenomena, and having done so, inclines his mind to the property of deathlessness: 'This is peace, this is exquisite — the resolution of all fabrications; the relinquishment of all acquisitions; the ending of craving; dispassion; cessation; Unbinding.'
(Jhana Sutta - Thanissaro Bhikkhu translation)

dagon
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Re: Should Wives Be Obedient?

Postby dagon » Wed Aug 21, 2013 1:44 am

Hi guys

Maybe it would be more positive to start a new thread - Are any of The Buddha’s teaching incompatible with modern social values? that way we can move forward without the baggage of this thread. We are in breach of the TOS at this time, lets give the Mods a day off and take responsibility for our own actions. PLEASE

metta
paul

Jhana4
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Re: Should Wives Be Obedient?

Postby Jhana4 » Wed Aug 21, 2013 2:34 am

In reading the scriptures, there are two kinds of mistakes:
One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.

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retrofuturist
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Re: Should Wives Be Obedient?

Postby retrofuturist » Wed Aug 21, 2013 2:35 am

:focus:
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

rohana
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Re: Should Wives Be Obedient?

Postby rohana » Wed Aug 21, 2013 6:11 am

Last edited by rohana on Thu Aug 22, 2013 4:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
"Delighting in existence, O monks, are gods and men; they are attached to existence, they revel in existence. When the Dhamma for the cessation of existence is being preached to them, their minds do not leap towards it, do not get pleased with it, do not get settled in it, do not find confidence in it. That is how, monks, some lag behind."
- It. p 43

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Bodhisurfer
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Re: Should Wives Be Obedient?

Postby Bodhisurfer » Wed Aug 21, 2013 4:56 pm

firstly I must admit to not having read this thread in its entirety -just a few pages at the start and a few at the end so my apologies if I have missed some important points or if I am repeating what has already been said.

I agree with the poster who says that the real question here is what do we do when parts of our religon disagree with our modern sensibilities. Surely we question everything - I beleive the Kalama sutta encourages that.

Does an obedient wife/partner move me, her, him or anyone else further on towards liberation? -I'm tempted to add does knowing whether a partner should be obedient help me on the path.?

I love the Pali cannon, I try to read something from it everyday. I believe its as near to the word of the Buddha as I can get but its unlikely to be exact, The chances of misinterpretation(deliberately or other wise), mistakes in copying, translation etc of something that is said to have not been written down for some considerable time after the Buddhas passing is probably quite high :buddha1:
Sabbe dhamma nalam abhinivesaya

Jhana4
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Re: Should Wives Be Obedient?

Postby Jhana4 » Wed Aug 21, 2013 6:04 pm

If you think of the Buddha as a non-divine human being, then you can accept that things he said and rules he made may be out of date.
In reading the scriptures, there are two kinds of mistakes:
One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.

dagon
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Joined: Sun Jun 30, 2013 12:45 am

Re: Should Wives Be Obedient?

Postby dagon » Thu Aug 22, 2013 12:12 am

It would have been better if the thread had been title WHY should women obey their husbands.

To reiterate the sutta quoted said respect, not obey.

If we go with the word respect then we have a basis for a discussion. If we want to be respected then there should be reasons why we are respected. If we want to be respected because the dhamma said we should be then we need (as husbands) to respect and follow the dhamma.

The problem with the original premise is that it leaves out half of the equation – how should husbands behave if they want respect from their wives. It is folly to believe that the dhamma gives husbands unilateral rights – The Buddha was talking about reciprocal rights and OBLIGATIONS. As a western society we are a rights based society and rarely consider the obligations which are in effect the rights of others in any transaction (including marriage).

The rights and obligations of both parties was based on their role in society – society has changed but the roles (striped of gender lables) have not. What we have now is that in most household both roles are carried out by both parties – there for what we now owe to our partners is both sets of obligations. If we apply this to our lives then we have a duty to mutually respect each other. This is in accordance with general Buddhist teachings and our society. If we take the invented (by the OP) duty of the wife to obey the husband this does not work.

Before we decide to impose the Buddha’s teaching on others we should try applying them to ourselves.

metta
paul


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