Effectiveness of Imagined Imagery in Meditation

General discussion of issues related to Theravada Meditation, e.g. meditation postures, developing a regular sitting practice, skillfully relating to difficulties and hindrances, etc.
flyingOx
Posts: 143
Joined: Mon May 04, 2009 4:08 pm

Effectiveness of Imagined Imagery in Meditation

Postby flyingOx » Thu Jul 30, 2009 6:13 pm

Let’s say someone is doing insight meditation, and one becomes aware of a root to a hindrance through one’s presently active sense of discernment. If one imagines that the root being observed is a red, hot, burning piece of coal, and the breath is like pouring water onto the burning piece of coal that completely puts it out in one’s imagination, will this meditative process effectively put a real end to the root of that hindrance if one simultaneously ties to this imagined imagery one’s belief that it is truly happening?
One is encouraged to seek the truth, but be warned if you ever find it, you will be treated as blasphemous.

flyingOx
Posts: 143
Joined: Mon May 04, 2009 4:08 pm

Re: Effectiveness of Imagined Imagery in Meditation

Postby flyingOx » Thu Jul 30, 2009 7:34 pm

If only at times this imagined imagery during one’s meditation of putting out the burning coals of the roots of the hindrances with imagined water actually works, but at other times it does not, does this cancel out this particular meditative practice as being a an illegitimate technique? Or does it merely indicate that one’s belief in its effectiveness is not genuinely applied adequately enough when it fails to deliver the desired results?
One is encouraged to seek the truth, but be warned if you ever find it, you will be treated as blasphemous.

User avatar
tiltbillings
Posts: 23012
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am

Re: Effectiveness of Imagined Imagery in Meditation

Postby tiltbillings » Thu Jul 30, 2009 8:49 pm


flyingOx
Posts: 143
Joined: Mon May 04, 2009 4:08 pm

Re: Effectiveness of Imagined Imagery in Meditation

Postby flyingOx » Thu Jul 30, 2009 8:57 pm

One is encouraged to seek the truth, but be warned if you ever find it, you will be treated as blasphemous.

User avatar
tiltbillings
Posts: 23012
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am

Re: Effectiveness of Imagined Imagery in Meditation

Postby tiltbillings » Thu Jul 30, 2009 9:23 pm


User avatar
clw_uk
Posts: 4655
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 2:36 am

Re: Effectiveness of Imagined Imagery in Meditation

Postby clw_uk » Thu Jul 30, 2009 9:37 pm

Wasnt very nice if you lied in the other threads and tricked others for your own amusement. Plus it can lead to a situation of "the boy who cried wolf"


metta
Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken

flyingOx
Posts: 143
Joined: Mon May 04, 2009 4:08 pm

Re: Effectiveness of Imagined Imagery in Meditation

Postby flyingOx » Thu Jul 30, 2009 9:38 pm

What would you like me to say,then, tiltbillings? Let's see:

No, I am not enlightened.
Yes, I have clowned around.
Yes, I thought it was obvious.
Do I like YOU, tilt? No, I don't.
Do I think that a lot of Buddhists go around acting like stuck up, know it all snobs? Yes, I do.
Am I considering not ever wanting to talk to another Buddhist again, because of it. MAYBE! TILT...It HAS come across my mind more than once.
I left the Christian faith because I thought that they were too arrogant, but by and large, Buddhism has them beat at it, if you ask me. I haven't run into so many stuck up jerks in my life, to be honest with you.

NOW, do I apprecieate and find a lot of peace and love in Buddha's writings, yes I do, but I'm not so sure that Buddhism is the right place for me, even still. The ball is on your side of the court, buddy.
One is encouraged to seek the truth, but be warned if you ever find it, you will be treated as blasphemous.

User avatar
clw_uk
Posts: 4655
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 2:36 am

Re: Effectiveness of Imagined Imagery in Meditation

Postby clw_uk » Thu Jul 30, 2009 9:44 pm

Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken

User avatar
tiltbillings
Posts: 23012
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am

Re: Effectiveness of Imagined Imagery in Meditation

Postby tiltbillings » Thu Jul 30, 2009 9:49 pm


flyingOx
Posts: 143
Joined: Mon May 04, 2009 4:08 pm

Re: Effectiveness of Imagined Imagery in Meditation

Postby flyingOx » Thu Jul 30, 2009 9:53 pm

I don't like you Tilt, I don't want to move on with any conversation with you. PERIOD. You are a jerk. I will not talk to someone so hateful.
One is encouraged to seek the truth, but be warned if you ever find it, you will be treated as blasphemous.

flyingOx
Posts: 143
Joined: Mon May 04, 2009 4:08 pm

Re: Effectiveness of Imagined Imagery in Meditation

Postby flyingOx » Thu Jul 30, 2009 9:55 pm

Telling someone that they are psychologically ill because of the way that they believe spiritually is not being helpful.
One is encouraged to seek the truth, but be warned if you ever find it, you will be treated as blasphemous.

User avatar
clw_uk
Posts: 4655
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 2:36 am

Re: Effectiveness of Imagined Imagery in Meditation

Postby clw_uk » Thu Jul 30, 2009 9:59 pm

Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken

User avatar
Ben
Posts: 18442
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:49 am
Location: kanamaluka

Re: Effectiveness of Imagined Imagery in Meditation

Postby Ben » Thu Jul 30, 2009 10:07 pm

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

flyingOx
Posts: 143
Joined: Mon May 04, 2009 4:08 pm

Re: Effectiveness of Imagined Imagery in Meditation

Postby flyingOx » Thu Jul 30, 2009 10:07 pm

One is encouraged to seek the truth, but be warned if you ever find it, you will be treated as blasphemous.

flyingOx
Posts: 143
Joined: Mon May 04, 2009 4:08 pm

Re: Effectiveness of Imagined Imagery in Meditation

Postby flyingOx » Thu Jul 30, 2009 10:09 pm

One is encouraged to seek the truth, but be warned if you ever find it, you will be treated as blasphemous.

User avatar
clw_uk
Posts: 4655
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 2:36 am

Re: Effectiveness of Imagined Imagery in Meditation

Postby clw_uk » Thu Jul 30, 2009 10:14 pm

Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken

User avatar
clw_uk
Posts: 4655
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 2:36 am

Re: Effectiveness of Imagined Imagery in Meditation

Postby clw_uk » Thu Jul 30, 2009 10:17 pm

Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken

User avatar
clw_uk
Posts: 4655
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 2:36 am

Re: Effectiveness of Imagined Imagery in Meditation

Postby clw_uk » Thu Jul 30, 2009 10:21 pm

This is why in the four foundations of mindfulness, in realtion to the body for this example, we dont sit there and think about the body being anicca, anatta and dukkha but actually experience it and see it via strong mindfulness and concentration



The essence is mindfulness (observing, watching) and concentration (focusing etc)



metta
Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken

flyingOx
Posts: 143
Joined: Mon May 04, 2009 4:08 pm

Re: Effectiveness of Imagined Imagery in Meditation

Postby flyingOx » Thu Jul 30, 2009 10:23 pm

After I had reached the higher jhanas and after the point of perceiving but not perceiving, I WAS sure that I was enlightened, AT THAT TIME. The questioning came later.

You and other say things like, "I'm not trying to be judgemental, not to be critical, not to be this or that," but these are just figures of speech. You ARE being critical, and this is also to me dishonesty. I suppose it depends on who is being dishonest or how long that particular Buddhist has been practicing when they get to actually get away with such things.

As far as hatefulness, whether you say that it is merely me misinterpreting it or not, I definitely have sensed hate being sent my way from several people here on Dhamma Wheel. You can call that an imagination if you want to, but I don't really care.

All of you are making a very good case for me to not become a Buddhist, though.
One is encouraged to seek the truth, but be warned if you ever find it, you will be treated as blasphemous.

User avatar
clw_uk
Posts: 4655
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 2:36 am

Re: Effectiveness of Imagined Imagery in Meditation

Postby clw_uk » Thu Jul 30, 2009 10:30 pm

Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken


Return to “General Theravāda Meditation”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests

Google Saffron, Theravada Search Engine