Buddhism and smoking, what's your thoughts?

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Roland
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Re: Is there a new "smoking" on the horizon

Postby Roland » Tue Jan 15, 2013 5:32 pm

James the Giant wrote:Cellphones. And the multitude of tiny transmitters found everywhere these days.
In my office building there are 11 floors. Each floor has about 100 people in it. Each of those people has a cellphone, wireless keyboard and mouse, wireless LAN for their computer, and most of them have a bluetooth headset. Oh and most cellphones have bluetooth and wifi too. That's 7700 transmission sources in just one little 11 story building, and that doesn't even include the larger receivers and transmitters on the ceilings and the proper big ones mounted on the top of the building. Seven thousand!
The evidence is scanty now, but surely that must all be having some effect. Hopefully not eh.


There's a good documentary on the effects of electromagnetic fields/radio frequencies/cell phone frequencies/wifi on human health. I particularly found interesting that there are 16 or 17 studies on suppressed melatonin production in the pineal gland due to electromagnetic radiation (which apparently can cause cancers, especially breast cancer). And apparently, there are people who sensitive to certain frequencies and have to be careful to stay further away from cell phone towers. In this documentary, one guy would internally bleed. He found out it was because he lived with in eye sight of a cell phone tower. He had to insulate his house with metal sheeting and metal fortified glass.

They make a good point that we now basically have no control group to test the effects of cell phone towers and other frequencies because they are literally everywhere in the world now. Even if you do not have any wireless devices anywhere near you, cell phone reception practically covers the entire planet. So unless you are in a protected building or something, the frequencies are everywhere.

The cell phone companies know this, of course, but it would not be profitable for them to be fully honest.

The documentary is called "Resonance". It is on YouTube and Vimeo

http://vimeo.com/54189727
"No tree becomes rooted and sturdy unless many a wind assails it. For by its very tossing it tightens its grip and plants its roots more securely; the fragile trees are those that have grown in a sunny valley."

--Seneca the Younger (57 BCE- 65 AD)

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manas
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Re: Is there a new "smoking" on the horizon

Postby manas » Tue Jan 15, 2013 8:33 pm

GM food (Genetically Modified) could end up being more dangerous than alcohol, tobacco and drugs put together. We can give up drugs individually or as a society, but once the gene pool of a plant or animal (used by humans as food) has been polluted by GM, afaik, there is no way to undo it.

We might think GM is safe for now, but in experiments on animals (you won't hear of this much in the mainstream media), it caused sterility in just seven generations, among other health problems.

I do hope we can manage not to utterly trash this biosphere, and ourselves along with it

Metta

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Kim OHara
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Re: Is there a new "smoking" on the horizon

Postby Kim OHara » Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:36 pm

Roland wrote:Interesting thread. I would say the next "smoking" would definitely be "hydraulic fracturing"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydraulic_fracturing

I live in a state that uses this process to extract natural gas. There is a huge list of chemicals used in the process. It also apparently causes methane seepage into ground water which will pollute tap water in households near the wells. People in the areas can literally light their tap water on fire. Also, numerous other strange health effects are caused in people who live around these wells. There is a documentary called "Gasland" that exposes these problems. As a reaction to this, a gas industry funded documentary was released called "Truthland" trying to disprove "Gasland". In response, the creator of "Gasland" released a response documentary to "Truthland" called "The Sky Is PInk", disproving further the industry's claims and denial of the harm they are apparently causing.

Ironically, the same PR firm that was hired by the tobacco industry in 1953 to tell the world that smoking is harmless and does not cause lung cancer, etc, is the exact same PR firm that a lobbying organization for the gas and oil industry hired to try to plant doubt in the minds of the public of the dangers of hydraulic fracturing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hill_%26_Knowlton

"Gasland" is one of the scariest movies I have seen, and fracking is a slow-mo environmental disaster. It's coming to Australia, too, but some of us are pushing back against it with some success.
But there is no mystery or irony about the disinformation campaign. The same small group of people have sold their services to (successively) the tobacco companies, the DDT makers, the CFC makers, and a couple more. They are now leading climate change denialism. Sound bizarre? It is, but it's true. Read Merchants of Doubt - see http://www.merchantsofdoubt.org/ and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merchants_of_Doubt.

:jedi:
Kim

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Mr Man
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Re: Is there a new "smoking" on the horizon

Postby Mr Man » Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:01 pm

Kim O'Hara wrote:
Roland wrote:Interesting thread. I would say the next "smoking" would definitely be "hydraulic fracturing"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydraulic_fracturing

I live in a state that uses this process to extract natural gas. There is a huge list of chemicals used in the process. It also apparently causes methane seepage into ground water which will pollute tap water in households near the wells. People in the areas can literally light their tap water on fire. Also, numerous other strange health effects are caused in people who live around these wells. There is a documentary called "Gasland" that exposes these problems. As a reaction to this, a gas industry funded documentary was released called "Truthland" trying to disprove "Gasland". In response, the creator of "Gasland" released a response documentary to "Truthland" called "The Sky Is PInk", disproving further the industry's claims and denial of the harm they are apparently causing.

Ironically, the same PR firm that was hired by the tobacco industry in 1953 to tell the world that smoking is harmless and does not cause lung cancer, etc, is the exact same PR firm that a lobbying organization for the gas and oil industry hired to try to plant doubt in the minds of the public of the dangers of hydraulic fracturing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hill_%26_Knowlton

"Gasland" is one of the scariest movies I have seen, and fracking is a slow-mo environmental disaster. It's coming to Australia, too, but some of us are pushing back against it with some success.
But there is no mystery or irony about the disinformation campaign. The same small group of people have sold their services to (successively) the tobacco companies, the DDT makers, the CFC makers, and a couple more. They are now leading climate change denialism. Sound bizarre? It is, but it's true. Read Merchants of Doubt - see http://www.merchantsofdoubt.org/ and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merchants_of_Doubt.

:jedi:
Kim


Fracking was blamed for two minor earthquakes in the UK but the Govt. has given permission for fracking to continue.

SarathW
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Re: Is there a new "smoking" on the horizon

Postby SarathW » Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:17 pm

Nicotine patches! ;)

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GraemeR
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Is there a new "smoking" on the horizon

Postby GraemeR » Wed Jan 16, 2013 1:25 am

Cittasanto wrote:Governments make a lot of money from tobacco also.


Which is why they restrict where it can used, rather than ban it.

With metta

Graham

danieLion
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Re: Is there a new "smoking" on the horizon

Postby danieLion » Wed Jan 16, 2013 3:11 am

It is necessary to bear a few general points in mind. First we are citizens of a society in which, utterly uniquely for the first time in history, most people now live out their natural lifespan to die from diseases strongly determined by ageing. Thus the putative gains from 'prevention' (if real) are likely to be quite small. Next, the human organism could not survive if its physiological functions such as blood pressure (implicated in stroke) or level of cholesterol (implicated in heart disease) varied widely in response to changes in the amount and type of food consumed. These functions rather are protected by a 'milieu intérieur', a multiplicity of different feedback mechanisms that combine to ensure a 'steady state'. Hence truly substantial changes in the pattern of food consumption are required to change them and thus influence the types of diseases in which they have been implicated.

Next, man, as the end product of hundreds of millions of years of evolution, is highly successful as a species by virtue of this phenomenal adaptability. Humans can and do live and prosper in a bewildering variety of different habitats, from the plains of India to the Arctic wastes. No other species has the same facility, so it might seem improbable that for some reason right at the end of the twentieth century subtle changes in the pattern of food consumption should cause lethal diseases.

Finally, the evidence for the Social Theory is overwhelmingly statistical, based on the inference that the lives we lead and the food we eat cause disease in the same way that smoking causes lung cancer. Sir Austin Bradford Hill's insistence that such statistical inferences by themselves have no meaning unless they are internally coherent, that is to say, when the several different types of evidence for an association between an environmental factor and disease (such as tobacco and lung cancer) are examined, they all point to the same conclusion. Put another way, no matter how plausible the link between dietary fat and heart disease might seem, just one substantial inconsistency in the statistical evidence undermines it....

The Social Theory was by the 1980's was very influential. It's protagonists were powerful men and women who had spent enormous sums of state and charitable funds to prove their theories so their admission of error would not just be humiliating but could destroy their reputations. They did not even seem to acknowledge they might have been mistaken, but believed so passionately in the veracity of their theories that any minor blemish--such as negative results of the heart disease trials--could be brushed aside.

This collective self-delusion is not common and suggests the protagonists, in constructing their facade of knowledge, must in some way have been different from the mainstream of medicine. They were--being motivated by a shared set of ideological beliefs that might tactfully be described as idealist utopianism. They had a much grander, nobler vision than ordinary doctors in the surgery who spent their time treating the sick. They aspired to nothing less than the prevention of illness on a massive scale. There is nothing wrong with wanting to make the world a better place, but utopianism has its dangers. It presupposes a greater knowledge base than medicine possesses while, at the same time, it refuses to recognise the possibility of uncertainty--that some things might be unknown.

The utopians entranced by 'big' ideas tend to be dismissive of small details that get in the way. The are forever producing plans and setting targets for how people should change their dietary habits or how wealth should be redistributed but have no model of human action, no understanding of how people do change.


-James Le Fanu. The Rise And Fall of Modern Medicine, pp. 286, 333-34 (2000, Carroll & Graf)

danieLion
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Re: Is there a new "smoking" on the horizon

Postby danieLion » Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:36 am

phpBB [video]

Roland
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Re: Is there a new "smoking" on the horizon

Postby Roland » Sat Jan 19, 2013 4:10 am

danieLion wrote:
phpBB [video]


:clap: :goodpost:
"No tree becomes rooted and sturdy unless many a wind assails it. For by its very tossing it tightens its grip and plants its roots more securely; the fragile trees are those that have grown in a sunny valley."

--Seneca the Younger (57 BCE- 65 AD)

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daverupa
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Re: Is there a new "smoking" on the horizon

Postby daverupa » Sat Jan 19, 2013 4:27 am

Always the same smoking by night, aflame by day, for us anthills...
    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.
- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]

SarathW
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Re: Does smoking violate fifth precept?

Postby SarathW » Mon Jan 21, 2013 12:38 am

Bhante Pesala
I hole heatedly agree with you. I wrote my article about two years ago.
Then I was under the impression that Sotapanna will not strictly follow the five precepts.
However after joining this forum, I have a better understanding of this.
So it is impossible for me to imagine that Sotapanna person will have any addictions.

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pilgrim
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Re: Does smoking violate fifth precept?

Postby pilgrim » Mon Jan 21, 2013 1:55 am

Just for interest sake, I understand that smoking for medicinal purposes is allowed in the vinaya. I can't cite the reference though. Maybe someone with more interest in the subject may be inclined to dig it up.

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Jerrod Lopes
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Re: Does smoking violate fifth precept?

Postby Jerrod Lopes » Mon Jan 21, 2013 4:06 am

Of course smoking when the vinaya was created is a whole lot different today. The tobacco in many regions that produce it is treated with chemical fertilizers and pesticides that were not available in the Buddha's time. Undoubtedly this changes from place to place, but I know in the US that tobacco, especially for cigarettes, is loaded with added chemicals not naturally found in the tobacco leaf itself. I thought that could be pertinent.

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pilgrim
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Re: Does smoking violate fifth precept?

Postby pilgrim » Mon Jan 21, 2013 4:20 am

Smoking is practised in a large number of cultures, even tribal ones. In modern and westernised cultures, smoking was considered socially acceptable until maybe a couple of decades ago when its adverse health effects became widely known. Smoking is bad for health, but it is not inherently morally bad so I don't think it violates the 5th Precept. The fifth precept prohibits the use of intoxicants - stuff that clouds the mind to the point that one easily breaks the first four. I think the question is not whether smoking violates the fifth precept but what one smokes that breaks the fifth precept.

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Cittasanto
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Re: Does smoking violate fifth precept?

Postby Cittasanto » Mon Jan 21, 2013 6:13 am

pilgrim wrote:Just for interest sake, I understand that smoking for medicinal purposes is allowed in the vinaya. I can't cite the reference though. Maybe someone with more interest in the subject may be inclined to dig it up.

this was brought up in another thread.
viewtopic.php?f=42&t=13494
and in the Dhammawiki
http://www.dhammawiki.com/index.php?title=Cannabis
it is in the Mahavagga though smoking tobbaco would be referred to in this thread. which didn't come to be used or known for the purpose until the Americas were discovered.
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."

bradford
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Re: Does smoking violate fifth precept?

Postby bradford » Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:46 pm

It might be a punctuation question (in paraphrase)

refrain from using drugs which lead to heedlessness, or
refrain from using drugs, which lead to heedlessness.

I prefer the former, which permits a stimulant like coffee or tea,
and perhaps even entheogens, as these do not conduce to pamada or heedlessness.

I spoze dying from lung cancer could distract one from the work.

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Cittasanto
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Re: Does smoking violate fifth precept?

Postby Cittasanto » Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:53 pm

bradford wrote:It might be a punctuation question (in paraphrase)

refrain from using drugs which lead to heedlessness, or
refrain from using drugs, which lead to heedlessness.

I prefer the former, which permits a stimulant like coffee or tea,
and perhaps even entheogens, as these do not conduce to pamada or heedlessness.

I spoze dying from lung cancer could distract one from the work.

the rule actually refers to alcoholic drinks, not any drug, but they would be covered if they lead to heedlesness.
and this actually points to what is meant by heedlessness in the rule. caffeine would not fall under the rule as it does not cause us to be week minded and do things we wouldn't normally do.
but death is our constant companion.
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."

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Jerrod Lopes
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Re: Does smoking violate fifth precept?

Postby Jerrod Lopes » Thu Jan 24, 2013 6:26 am

During the Buddha's time and in the region in which he taught, soma was used extensively in the Vedic traditions. It is believed by historians and religious scholars that soma was the plant and the drink both which were very likely ephedra or something very much like it. It was known as a cause for many "heedless" behaviors. The Buddha most certainly would have known about this, especially if he were actually a prince as a lot of the stories say. He would have had occasion to use the drug during rituals being of the ruling caste. Undoubtedly he meant alcohol when he created this precept, but surely he would have included soma as well.

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manas
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I'm giving up tobacco, permanently

Postby manas » Fri Aug 30, 2013 10:00 pm

Greetings Dhamma friends and guests,

I have decided to give up smoking tobacco completely, but will do it in two stages. First I will resolve to smoke only one cigarette per day. Once this becomes easy to deal with, I will contemplate when to take the next step: complete and (hopefully) permanent abandonment of this habit, which honestly I had always intended I would give up one day in any case.

I'm doing this not merely for myself, but also for those dear to me, especially those who love and/or rely on me (such as my children, for example). It begins today. If there are challenges along the way, so be it. I have now finally decided, it is time.

Thanks for reading this. I will use this topic as needed, I don't know how often, it depends on how challenging I find this undertaking. But I will use this topic as a virtual journal of recovery from this unhealthy acquired habit.

manas :anjali:
Last edited by manas on Sun Sep 08, 2013 8:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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tiltbillings
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Re: Tobacco: first cutting back, then abandoning completely

Postby tiltbillings » Fri Aug 30, 2013 10:06 pm

Good luck.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

dheamhan a fhios agam
Damned if I know.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson


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