Your point with these quotes is?pegembara wrote:Sati without sampajanna is only half the equation. . . .
judgment-free awareness
- tiltbillings
- Posts: 23046
- Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am
Re: judgment-free awareness
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
-
- Posts: 10186
- Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 10:32 am
- Location: Andromeda looks nice
Re: judgment-free awareness
The Satipatthana Sutta seems to say that we should be mindful of whatever arises, good, bad and indifferent - feelings, mind-states etc. The question is what we do then. Presumably this involves not indulging in unwholesome states of mind, and developing wholesome states of mind, as for example with the 7 factors of enlightenment?ohnofabrications wrote: does one keep the battle away from oneself? (not tolerating defilement approach)
or does one keep oneself away from the battle? (radical acceptance approach)
Buddha save me from new-agers!
-
- Posts: 10186
- Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 10:32 am
- Location: Andromeda looks nice
Re: judgment-free awareness
Actually, isn't it just describing an approach to mindfulness?tiltbillings wrote:The same as the Buddha's instructions to Bahiya.retrofuturist wrote:Greetings,
Which component(s) of the Noble Eightfold Path does "judgment-free awareness" correlate to?
Metta,
Retro.
Buddha save me from new-agers!
- tiltbillings
- Posts: 23046
- Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am
Re: judgment-free awareness
I always thought so.Spiny Norman wrote:Actually, isn't it just describing an approach to mindfulness?tiltbillings wrote:The same as the Buddha's instructions to Bahiya.retrofuturist wrote:Greetings,
Which component(s) of the Noble Eightfold Path does "judgment-free awareness" correlate to?
Metta,
Retro.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
Re: judgment-free awareness
Judgement free awareness would be like blissing out under the Bodhi tree and sampajanna would be thinking, "Who can I benefit benefit from this discovery?"tiltbillings wrote:Your point with these quotes is?pegembara wrote:Sati without sampajanna is only half the equation. . . .
Judgement free awareness would be like walking into the path of a raging cow and getting gored. With sampajanna one can avoid such problems.
It is not enough to just see, hear, smell etc. See David's comment.
Don't forget the active component.
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.
- tiltbillings
- Posts: 23046
- Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am
Re: judgment-free awareness
So, Ajahns Chah and Munindo haven't a clue as to what they are talking about.pegembara wrote:Judgement free awareness would be like blissing out under the Bodhi tree and sampajanna would be thinking, "Who can I benefit benefit from this discovery?"tiltbillings wrote:Your point with these quotes is?pegembara wrote:Sati without sampajanna is only half the equation. . . .
Judgement free awareness would be like walking into the path of a raging cow and getting gored. With sampajanna one can avoid such problems.
It is not enough to just see, hear, smell etc. See David's comment.
Don't forget the active component.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
Re: judgment-free awareness
The "judgment-free awareness" still needs to be taken within a context and to practice it is not easy.
Re: judgment-free awareness
I think that this approach actually automatically satisfies right effort, because that kind of attitude is really just the sort of thing that feeds good qualities and starves bad ones, settles the mind, and allows clear comprehension, in an nearly (but not entirely) effortless way. It is a very refined practice that comes about from a lot of experience and a well developed mind.
- tiltbillings
- Posts: 23046
- Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am
Re: judgment-free awareness
What the Ajahns are talking about is a mature practice.Mr Man wrote:The "judgment-free awareness" still needs to be taken within a context and to practice it is not easy.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
Re: judgment-free awareness
Note that Still Forrest Pool was compiled by jack kornfield & paul breiter.
So not sure that is a quote maybe more paraphrase.
[Munindo] characterised a practice centered on trust in a non-judgmental awareness of the present moment as ‘source-oriented’ practice, contrasting it to ‘goal-oriented’ striving. (p.7)
The satipatthana refrain is of interest, Analayo p. 111:
So not sure that is a quote maybe more paraphrase.
Some context for the Munindo quote:Whatever there is that arises in the mind, just watch it. Let go of it. Don't even wish to be rid of thoughts. Then the mind will reach its natural state. No discriminating between good and bad, hot and cold, fast and slow. No me and no you, no self at all. Just what there is. When you walk on alms-round, no need to do anything special. Simply walk and see what there is. No need to cling to isolation or seclusion. Wherever you are, know yourself by being natural and watching. If doubts arise, watch them come
and go. It' s very simple. Hold on to nothing. It is as though you are walking down a road. Periodically you will run into obstacles. When you meet defilements, just see them and just overcome them by letting
go of them. don't think about the obstacles you have passed already . Don't worry about those you have not yet seen. Stick to the present. Don't be concerned about the length of the road or about the destination. Everything is changing. Whatever you pass, do not cling to it. Eventually the mind will reach its natural balance where practice is automatic. All things will come and go of themselves. (Teachings of Ajahn Chah p. 76)
[Munindo] characterised a practice centered on trust in a non-judgmental awareness of the present moment as ‘source-oriented’ practice, contrasting it to ‘goal-oriented’ striving. (p.7)
The satipatthana refrain is of interest, Analayo p. 111:
At this comparatively advanced stage satipatthana is practised for its own sake. With this shift in attitude, the goal and the act of meditation being to merge into one, since awareness and understanding are cultivated for the sake of developing ever more awareness and understanding. The practice of satipatthan becomes "effortless effort", so to speak, divested of goal-orientation and expectation. It is preciesly this way of contemplating tha tin turn enables one to proceed independently, "without clinging to anything in the world" of expiernece, as stipulated in the final part of the refrain"
Re: judgment-free awareness
So, Ajahns Chah and Munindo haven't a clue as to what they are talking about.
Sure they do. They are wise people.
Q: Have you ever looked at the Altar Sutra of the 6th Patriarch, Hui Neng?
Answer: Hui Neng's wisdom is very keen. It is very profound teaching,not easy for beginners to understand. But if you practise with our discipline and with patience, if you practise not-clinging, you will eventually understand. Once I had a disciple who stayed in a grass-roofed hut. It rained often that rainy season and one day a strong wind blew off half the roof. He did not bother to fix it, just let it rain in. Several days passed and I asked him about his hut. He said he was practising not-clinging. This is not-clinging without wisdom. It is about the same as the equanimity of a water buffalo. If you live a good life and live simply, if you are patient and unselfish, you will understand the wisdom of Hui Neng.
http://www.buddhanet.net/bodhiny2.htm
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.
-
- Posts: 10186
- Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 10:32 am
- Location: Andromeda looks nice
Re: judgment-free awareness
But isn't sampajanna a type of judgement? Wise judgement, anyway. So perhaps the point is not rushing to judgement, not reacting to immediate experience?pegembara wrote: With sampajanna one can avoid such problems.
Buddha save me from new-agers!
- tiltbillings
- Posts: 23046
- Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am
Re: judgment-free awareness
The primary context, it seems to me, of the two OP quotes is meditation practice.Spiny Norman wrote:But isn't sampajanna a type of judgement? Wise judgement, anyway. So perhaps the point is not rushing to judgement, not reacting to immediate experience?pegembara wrote: With sampajanna one can avoid such problems.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
-
- Posts: 10186
- Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 10:32 am
- Location: Andromeda looks nice
Re: judgment-free awareness
Certainly the first one, though I think the second has application both on and off the cushion.tiltbillings wrote:The primary context, it seems to me, of the two OP quotes is meditation practice.Spiny Norman wrote:But isn't sampajanna a type of judgement? Wise judgement, anyway. So perhaps the point is not rushing to judgement, not reacting to immediate experience?pegembara wrote: With sampajanna one can avoid such problems.
Buddha save me from new-agers!
- tiltbillings
- Posts: 23046
- Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am
Re: judgment-free awareness
I would have said it the other way round.Spiny Norman wrote:
Certainly the first one, though I think the second has application both on and off the cushion.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723