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Improving Buddhism/The Imperfect Buddha - Dhamma Wheel

Improving Buddhism/The Imperfect Buddha

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
danieLion
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Improving Buddhism/The Imperfect Buddha

Postby danieLion » Fri Aug 30, 2013 10:34 pm

Can Buddhism be improved upon? Was the Buddha perfect?

Currently, I'm inclined to say "yes" to the first question and "no" to the second.

Kindly,
dL

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cooran
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Re: Improving Buddhism/The Imperfect Buddha

Postby cooran » Fri Aug 30, 2013 10:37 pm

Hello Daniel,

Please expand on your post, and present any reasons you see as supporting your statements.

With metta,
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

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Kusala
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Re: Improving Buddhism/The Imperfect Buddha

Postby Kusala » Sat Aug 31, 2013 1:20 am

Image

"He, the Blessed One, is indeed the Noble Lord, the Perfectly Enlightened One;
He is impeccable in conduct and understanding, the Serene One, the Knower of the Worlds;
He trains perfectly those who wish to be trained; he is Teacher of gods and men; he is Awake and Holy. "

--------------------------------------------
"The Dhamma is well-expounded by the Blessed One,
Apparent here and now, timeless, encouraging investigation,
Leading to liberation, to be experienced individually by the wise. "

dagon
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Re: Improving Buddhism/The Imperfect Buddha

Postby dagon » Sat Aug 31, 2013 3:14 am


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David N. Snyder
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Re: Improving Buddhism/The Imperfect Buddha

Postby David N. Snyder » Sat Aug 31, 2013 3:21 am

It depends upon what you mean by "Buddhism." Is it the Dhamma-Vinaya as taught by the Buddha? The Dharma by Mahayana? Vajrayana? Is it how Buddhism is practiced today?

It depends upon what you mean by "perfect." Is it perfect as in omniscient? Is is perfect as in never making a mistake? Or something else?
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danieLion
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Re: Improving Buddhism/The Imperfect Buddha

Postby danieLion » Sat Aug 31, 2013 6:01 am


Jhana4
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Re: Improving Buddhism/The Imperfect Buddha

Postby Jhana4 » Sat Aug 31, 2013 12:00 pm

In reading the scriptures, there are two kinds of mistakes:
One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.

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David N. Snyder
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Re: Improving Buddhism/The Imperfect Buddha

Postby David N. Snyder » Sat Aug 31, 2013 4:21 pm

Image




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Bhikkhu Pesala
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Re: Improving Buddhism/The Imperfect Buddha

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Sat Aug 31, 2013 6:48 pm

If a Fully Enlightened, Sammāsambuddha, could make mistakes then he would not be a Perfect One. Imperfect beings can easily misinterpret his teaching due to their partial understanding.

The Vinaya rule prohibits a monk from lighting a fire to warm himself, and for no other reason. There is no offence if he is sick. To practice forbearance to forestall the arising of attachment to sensual pleasures, and to maintain frugality out of compassion for one's supporters who pay the bills is not self-mortification. However, one should not go to such extremes that one becomes sick. If one gets sick, then one will be a greater burden on supporters.

The Buddha did not intervene to prevent the suicide of some forest dwelling monks, because he knew that their past kamma was so severe that nothing could prevent it's bearing fruit. Likewise, he did not intervene when Moggallāna was being beaten to death by hired thugs. In the case of Angulimāla, the Buddha could and did intervene to prevent him committing the heinous crime of killing his own mother.
• • • • (Upasampadā: 24th June, 1979)

danieLion
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Re: Improving Buddhism/The Imperfect Buddha

Postby danieLion » Sat Aug 31, 2013 7:25 pm


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Bhikkhu Pesala
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Re: Improving Buddhism/The Imperfect Buddha

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Sat Aug 31, 2013 7:42 pm

All Arahants, let alone Omniscient Buddhas, are incapable of taking a wrong course through greed, ill-will, fear, or delusion.

So what mistakes could be made by the Buddha, and whose judgement is so profound that they are able to declare that such and such an action taken by the Buddha was a “mistake.”

If he made any mistake at all, it was propagating a teaching that fools could criticise and find fault with to their own detriment. If he had said nothing, no one could blame the blameless one.
• • • • (Upasampadā: 24th June, 1979)

danieLion
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Re: Improving Buddhism/The Imperfect Buddha

Postby danieLion » Sat Aug 31, 2013 7:43 pm


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Kusala
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Re: Improving Buddhism/The Imperfect Buddha

Postby Kusala » Sat Aug 31, 2013 8:11 pm

Image

"He, the Blessed One, is indeed the Noble Lord, the Perfectly Enlightened One;
He is impeccable in conduct and understanding, the Serene One, the Knower of the Worlds;
He trains perfectly those who wish to be trained; he is Teacher of gods and men; he is Awake and Holy. "

--------------------------------------------
"The Dhamma is well-expounded by the Blessed One,
Apparent here and now, timeless, encouraging investigation,
Leading to liberation, to be experienced individually by the wise. "

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Bhikkhu Pesala
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Re: Improving Buddhism/The Imperfect Buddha

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Sat Aug 31, 2013 8:29 pm

• • • • (Upasampadā: 24th June, 1979)

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gavesako
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Re: Improving Buddhism/The Imperfect Buddha

Postby gavesako » Sat Aug 31, 2013 9:33 pm

Growing the Dharma: Buddhism’s Religious Spadework. Draft, July 2013.
“The individual or collective Western response has often much like that of the new landowner who discovers an overgrown but still potentially productive corn field on his property and with limited understanding of both corn and non-corn, dauntlessly hacks away with a machete only to destroy half of the corn and to leave half of the undergrowth, then plants one row of Monsanto super-corn and row of squash to make it look right. It looks pretty good, so we call it Western Buddhism and expect it to save Buddhism from centuries of Asian misunderstanding and cultural accretions. We have all the hubris and discernment-level of rowdy teenagers.”

http://bhikkhucintita.wordpress.com/boo ... u-cintita/

:reading: :candle:
Bhikkhu Gavesako
Kiṃkusalagavesī anuttaraṃ santivarapadaṃ pariyesamāno... (MN 26)

- Theravada texts
- Translations and history of Pali texts
- Sutta translations

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appicchato
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Re: Improving Buddhism/The Imperfect Buddha

Postby appicchato » Sat Aug 31, 2013 9:47 pm


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mikenz66
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Re: Improving Buddhism/The Imperfect Buddha

Postby mikenz66 » Sat Aug 31, 2013 10:18 pm

Thanks for the fascinating link, Bhante.

:anjali:
Mike

danieLion
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Re: Improving Buddhism/The Imperfect Buddha

Postby danieLion » Mon Sep 02, 2013 9:00 pm


Jhana4
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Re: Improving Buddhism/The Imperfect Buddha

Postby Jhana4 » Mon Sep 02, 2013 9:22 pm

In reading the scriptures, there are two kinds of mistakes:
One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.

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clw_uk
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Re: Improving Buddhism/The Imperfect Buddha

Postby clw_uk » Mon Sep 02, 2013 10:03 pm

Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken


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