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Problems with "9 Essays: Buddhism & The 12 Steps" - Dhamma Wheel

Problems with "9 Essays: Buddhism & The 12 Steps"

Casual discussion amongst spiritual friends.
danieLion
Posts: 1947
Joined: Wed May 25, 2011 4:49 am

Problems with "9 Essays: Buddhism & The 12 Steps"

Postby danieLion » Wed Sep 04, 2013 7:30 am

Hi,
Since I don't want people to think I'm engagind in an ad hominem attack on bodom's fine topic
, I decided to create a new topic to critize the article he posted about their called . I've done so in the form of a blog post:

http://inthelion.blogspot.com/2013/09/t ... sm-12.html

I hope you like it; or, if you don't, I hope it at least helps you think more critically about this important issue.
Kindly,
dL
Last edited by danieLion on Thu Sep 05, 2013 7:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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lyndon taylor
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Re: Problems with "9 Essays: Buddhism & The 12 Steps"

Postby lyndon taylor » Wed Sep 04, 2013 8:34 am

That's why the 12 step program might be better called "irrational recovery"
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community, sincerely former monk John

http://trickleupeconomictheory.blogspot.com/

dagon
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Re: Problems with "9 Essays: Buddhism & The 12 Steps"

Postby dagon » Wed Sep 04, 2013 8:53 am

Hi Daniel

Thanks for your post and all the wok behind it.

A very interesting read to say the least, to be honest i had never even heard of SMART Recovery before. :embarassed:

My very limited exposure to 12 step programs had run into the "god shaped hole" and seen how the program appeared in the cases i knew of to be little more than a state funded recruitment of converts by certain organisations. Now i have a direction that i can steer other towards that i feel comfortable with where i don't feel that they will be exploited as a resource by an organisation.

metta
paul

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lyndon taylor
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Re: Problems with "9 Essays: Buddhism & The 12 Steps"

Postby lyndon taylor » Wed Sep 04, 2013 9:11 am

I think he's refering to rational recovery, based on the teachings of psychologist Albert Ellis, went to one meeting, made a lot of sense, unfortunately the cult members at AA have waged a ruthless war against Rational Recovery to where now you're lucky to find any RR meetings anywhere. How the court system can order people to go into a religious program, AA, beats me, and you are allowed to go to other recovery groups, except thanks to AAs BS there are no other programs, best thing is to get yourself sober and stay the hell away from AA.
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community, sincerely former monk John

http://trickleupeconomictheory.blogspot.com/

dagon
Posts: 526
Joined: Sun Jun 30, 2013 12:45 am

Re: Problems with "9 Essays: Buddhism & The 12 Steps"

Postby dagon » Wed Sep 04, 2013 9:29 am

SMART Recover link
http://smartrecoveryaustralia.com.au/

metta paul

dagon
Posts: 526
Joined: Sun Jun 30, 2013 12:45 am

Re: Problems with "9 Essays: Buddhism & The 12 Steps"

Postby dagon » Wed Sep 04, 2013 9:30 am

SMART Recover link
http://smartrecoveryaustralia.com.au/

metta paul

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bodom
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Location: San Antonio, Texas

Re: Problems with "9 Essays: Buddhism & The 12 Steps"

Postby bodom » Wed Sep 04, 2013 12:53 pm

I'm sorry AA hasn't worked for you. It has for me personally and countless others. Use whatever program keeps you sober. I wish you well in your recovery and may we all stay clean and sober with whatever program we work!

:anjali:
To study is to know the texts,
To practice is to know your defilements,
To attain the goal is to know and let go.

- Ajahn Lee Dhammadharo


With mindfulness immersed in the body
well established, restrained
with regard to the six media of contact,
always centered, the monk
can know Unbinding for himself.

- Ud 3.5


https://www.dhammatalks.org/index.html
http://www.ajahnchah.org/

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m0rl0ck
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Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2009 10:51 am

Re: Problems with "9 Essays: Buddhism & The 12 Steps"

Postby m0rl0ck » Wed Sep 04, 2013 5:10 pm

AA works. The reason the organization appears theist is that due to the "higher power of your understanding" step, if most of the members are theists it appears theist. If most of the members were buddhists it would likely appear buddhist.
Its not for everybody tho, only those who are sincerely desperate are likely to be able to achieve the degree of surrender required. The proud wont make it and maybe need to take a few more runs around the block :)
“The truth knocks on the door and you say, "Go away, I'm looking for the truth," and so it goes away. Puzzling.” ― Robert M. Pirsig

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m0rl0ck
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Re: Problems with "9 Essays: Buddhism & The 12 Steps"

Postby m0rl0ck » Wed Sep 04, 2013 5:41 pm

“The truth knocks on the door and you say, "Go away, I'm looking for the truth," and so it goes away. Puzzling.” ― Robert M. Pirsig

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bodom
Posts: 5713
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 6:18 pm
Location: San Antonio, Texas

Re: Problems with "9 Essays: Buddhism & The 12 Steps"

Postby bodom » Wed Sep 04, 2013 6:49 pm

To study is to know the texts,
To practice is to know your defilements,
To attain the goal is to know and let go.

- Ajahn Lee Dhammadharo


With mindfulness immersed in the body
well established, restrained
with regard to the six media of contact,
always centered, the monk
can know Unbinding for himself.

- Ud 3.5


https://www.dhammatalks.org/index.html
http://www.ajahnchah.org/

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Viscid
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Location: Toronto, Canada
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Re: Problems with "9 Essays: Buddhism & The 12 Steps"

Postby Viscid » Wed Sep 04, 2013 7:34 pm

I'm not sure how important being technically accurate about Buddhist philosophy actually is when appealing to it in an attempt to recover from an addiction: your philosophy should be that which best supports your recovery. Alcoholics, I imagine, are desperate to find some philosophical stability.. and if they are alienated from the concept of God, then a quasi-Buddhism, which is less accurate but perhaps more effective than 'actual' Buddhism, would be of greater benefit.
"What holds attention determines action." - William James

danieLion
Posts: 1947
Joined: Wed May 25, 2011 4:49 am

Re: Problems with "9 Essays: Buddhism & The 12 Steps"

Postby danieLion » Wed Sep 04, 2013 8:49 pm

Last edited by danieLion on Wed Sep 04, 2013 9:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

danieLion
Posts: 1947
Joined: Wed May 25, 2011 4:49 am

Re: Problems with "9 Essays: Buddhism & The 12 Steps"

Postby danieLion » Wed Sep 04, 2013 9:23 pm

Last edited by danieLion on Thu Sep 05, 2013 8:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.

danieLion
Posts: 1947
Joined: Wed May 25, 2011 4:49 am

Re: Problems with "9 Essays: Buddhism & The 12 Steps"

Postby danieLion » Wed Sep 04, 2013 9:33 pm


danieLion
Posts: 1947
Joined: Wed May 25, 2011 4:49 am

Re: Problems with "9 Essays: Buddhism & The 12 Steps"

Postby danieLion » Wed Sep 04, 2013 10:19 pm


danieLion
Posts: 1947
Joined: Wed May 25, 2011 4:49 am

Re: Problems with "9 Essays: Buddhism & The 12 Steps"

Postby danieLion » Wed Sep 04, 2013 10:24 pm


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mirco
Posts: 448
Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2010 2:12 pm

Re: Problems with "9 Essays: Buddhism & The 12 Steps"

Postby mirco » Wed Sep 04, 2013 10:34 pm

"An important term for meditative absorption is samadhi. We often translate that as concentration, but that can suggest a certain stiffness. Perhaps unification is a better rendition, as samadhi means to bring together. Deep samadhi isn't at all stiff. It's a process of letting go of other things and coming to a unified experience." -

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mirco
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Re: Problems with "9 Essays: Buddhism & The 12 Steps"

Postby mirco » Wed Sep 04, 2013 10:47 pm

"An important term for meditative absorption is samadhi. We often translate that as concentration, but that can suggest a certain stiffness. Perhaps unification is a better rendition, as samadhi means to bring together. Deep samadhi isn't at all stiff. It's a process of letting go of other things and coming to a unified experience." -

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m0rl0ck
Posts: 1160
Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2009 10:51 am

Re: Problems with "9 Essays: Buddhism & The 12 Steps"

Postby m0rl0ck » Wed Sep 04, 2013 11:23 pm

“The truth knocks on the door and you say, "Go away, I'm looking for the truth," and so it goes away. Puzzling.” ― Robert M. Pirsig

chownah
Posts: 6161
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:19 pm

Re: Problems with "9 Essays: Buddhism & The 12 Steps"

Postby chownah » Thu Sep 05, 2013 2:44 am

Different people learn different things in different ways. I learned this when studying Education at Uni. To the extent that different people who indulge in different intoxicants for different reasons need to learn something to control their indulgences is the degree to which different educational approaches should be made available to them.

Bottom line: There is no single approach that will work for everyone.......we need many different approaches available.
chownah


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