There's blood in your milk. The ethics of consumption

General discussion of issues related to Theravada Training of Sila, the Five Precepts (Pañcasikkhāpada), and Eightfold Ethical Conduct (Aṭṭhasīla).

There's blood in your milk. The ethics of consumption

Postby Ben » Mon Sep 09, 2013 7:08 am

I'm wondering how many people know about the disturbing fact that in many countries, the vast majority of calves born to diary cows are slaughtered at less than five days of age. Knowing this, and that demand for milk perpetuates the intense suffering of diary cattle, is it still ethical to consume diary products?

Whatever your views are regarding the subject, I urge you to watch this short video.



kind regards,

Ben
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Re: There's blood in your milk. The ethics of consumption

Postby cooran » Mon Sep 09, 2013 8:05 am

Hello Ben,

Viewing from my iPad, all I can see are your typed post and just a blank page, no link.

With metta,
Chris
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Re: There's blood in your milk. The ethics of consumption

Postby cooran » Mon Sep 09, 2013 8:12 am

Having lived on acreage and owned a house cow, i came to realise that there are also ethical issues concerning the fact that the cow needs to have multiple calves through the years to keep producing their food - milk. Most male calves are sent to the abattoirs, and female calves are taken away when in puberty, impregnated, and live the same life as their mother.

With metta,
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Re: There's blood in your milk. The ethics of consumption

Postby Spiny Norman » Mon Sep 09, 2013 8:32 am

I only drink soy milk these days.
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Re: There's blood in your milk. The ethics of consumption

Postby Ben » Mon Sep 09, 2013 9:24 am

cooran wrote:Hello Ben,

Viewing from my iPad, all I can see are your typed post and just a blank page, no link.

With metta,
Chris


http://vimeo.com/53988865
"One cannot step twice into the same river, nor can one grasp any mortal substance in a stable condition, but it scatters and again gathers; it forms and dissolves, and approaches and departs."

- Heraclitus


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Re: There's blood in your milk. The ethics of consumption

Postby Jhana4 » Mon Sep 09, 2013 9:38 am

Ben wrote:I'm wondering how many people know about the disturbing fact that in many countries, the vast majority of calves born to diary cows are slaughtered at less than five days of age.


+1

I read that cows have a lifespan of about 30 years about cows that live in factory farms to produce milk only live about 5 years. They get burned out from the conditions and stress they live in and start producing much less milk. It isn't economically feasible to keep them alive after that so they get sent to slaughter.
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Re: There's blood in your milk. The ethics of consumption

Postby cooran » Mon Sep 09, 2013 9:53 am

---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---
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Re: There's blood in your milk. The ethics of consumption

Postby appicchato » Mon Sep 09, 2013 11:01 am

Spiny Norman wrote:I only drink soy milk these days.


Dit-to...
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Re: There's blood in your milk. The ethics of consumption

Postby seeker242 » Mon Sep 09, 2013 11:03 am

Ben wrote: Knowing this, and that demand for milk perpetuates the intense suffering of diary cattle, is it still ethical to consume diary products?


No.

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Re: There's blood in your milk. The ethics of consumption

Postby daverupa » Mon Sep 09, 2013 11:21 am

Soy milk can be healthy or unhealthy depending on a number of factors, so in your own individual cases please become an educated consumer in order to ensure you are getting fresh whole bean product, and not processed swill. Sometimes there is even added sugar.

I usually drink rice milk. I can't find a better alternative at present; finding a good variety of rice milk seems easier than finding good soy in my case, at any rate.
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    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.
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Re: There's blood in your milk. The ethics of consumption

Postby barcsimalsi » Mon Sep 09, 2013 11:37 am

Spiny Norman wrote:I only drink soy milk these days.

Cakes, chocolate bar, candy bars and various beverages have milk as part of their ingredients too.

How can we totally abstain from taking them?
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Re: There's blood in your milk. The ethics of consumption

Postby daverupa » Mon Sep 09, 2013 11:50 am

barcsimalsi wrote:
Spiny Norman wrote:I only drink soy milk these days.

Cakes, chocolate bar, candy bars and various beverages have milk as part of their ingredients too.

How can we totally abstain from taking them?


By abstention. Pretend you're lactose intolerant, etc.
    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.
- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
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Re: There's blood in your milk. The ethics of consumption

Postby mirco » Mon Sep 09, 2013 12:08 pm

Dear Ben
Ben wrote:I'm wondering how many people know about the disturbing fact that in many countries, the vast majority of calves born to diary cows are slaughtered at less than five days of age. Knowing this, and that demand for milk perpetuates the intense suffering of diary cattle, is it still ethical to consume diary products?



thanks for sharing that video. It always helps to watch videos like this to remind myself what to choose in daily life.

:anjali:


P.S.: Btw, humans 'are' the only mammals, whose offsprings use milk after growing up.
One my consider a life without milk.
I get what I give
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Re: There's blood in your milk. The ethics of consumption

Postby Sam Vara » Mon Sep 09, 2013 12:44 pm

I'm wondering how many people know about the disturbing fact that in many countries, the vast majority of calves born to diary cows are slaughtered at less than five days of age


Yes, after working for a while as a dairy herdsman, I have been vegan ever since. And that was before most people had even heard the term! It can certainly be a harrowing experience to sparate a mother cow and newborn calf and take the calf to a different part of the farm - where it will be fattened up on potato starch until ready for slaughter.

You might be interested to know that there is, as well as blood, often quite a lot of mastitis pus in your milk, too...
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Re: There's blood in your milk. The ethics of consumption

Postby sphairos » Mon Sep 09, 2013 12:51 pm

I think, yes, it is ethical. Actually, I like meat and don't see any problem here. Calf meat is so delicious. The irony is I don't like milk and diary products :)

If you are worried about this practice I may suggest that you might think about it as only a temporary measure: very soon, perhaps in a few coming decades, science will allow us to produce an abundance of consumable proteins from inorganic substances and genetically modified mushrooms and microorganisms.
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Re: There's blood in your milk. The ethics of consumption

Postby appicchato » Mon Sep 09, 2013 1:09 pm

sphairos wrote:I think, yes, it is ethical. Actually, I like meat and don't see any problem here. Calf meat is so delicious. The irony is I don't like milk and diary products :)

If you are worried about this practice I may suggest that you might think about it as only a temporary measure: very soon, perhaps in a few coming decades, science will allow us to produce an abundance of consumable proteins from inorganic substances and genetically modified mushrooms and microorganisms.


Wonderful...
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Re: There's blood in your milk. The ethics of consumption

Postby sphairos » Mon Sep 09, 2013 1:36 pm

appicchato wrote:
sphairos wrote:I think, yes, it is ethical. Actually, I like meat and don't see any problem here. Calf meat is so delicious. The irony is I don't like milk and diary products :)

If you are worried about this practice I may suggest that you might think about it as only a temporary measure: very soon, perhaps in a few coming decades, science will allow us to produce an abundance of consumable proteins from inorganic substances and genetically modified mushrooms and microorganisms.


Wonderful...


What do you mean?
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Re: There's blood in your milk. The ethics of consumption

Postby mirco » Mon Sep 09, 2013 7:53 pm


Thanks g*d I'm neither born as cow nor as slaughter.
I get what I give
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Re: There's blood in your milk. The ethics of consumption

Postby PsychedelicSunSet » Mon Sep 09, 2013 7:54 pm

To my knowledge, milking cows/egg chickens typically have an even worse life than those that are simply bred for slaughter. The vast majority of milk cows develop some form of dementia from the torture they endure at the milking factories, and then once they can no longer produce milk are sent to the slaughter house. I've been Vegan for 7 years, so I may be biased, but I think that eating milk/egg products is unethical. That being said, I would never tell someone else they're unethical people for eating said animals products.
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Re: There's blood in your milk. The ethics of consumption

Postby Ben » Mon Sep 09, 2013 8:20 pm

barcsimalsi wrote:How can we totally abstain from taking them?


Read food labels. If the product contains diary, and in my case, any animal product or added sugar, I don't consume it.
Instead of chocolate bars, sweets and cakes you might like to try dried and fresh fruit and nuts. For hot beverages I have black unsweetened coffee and tea, and green tea. For a cold beverage I have a non-sweetened, non-flavoured mineral water.
kind regards,

Ben
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- Heraclitus


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