Sutta Pitaka and Ananda

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Sutta Pitaka and Ananda

Postby Tom » Sun Sep 15, 2013 7:49 am

Did Ananda recite every single discourse given by Gotama Buddha (even if he wasnt present with him) at the first council?
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Re: Sutta Pitaka and Ananda

Postby Sekha » Sun Sep 15, 2013 7:54 am

so says the tradition.. I doubt anyone will ever know how things really happened.
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Re: Sutta Pitaka and Ananda

Postby cooran » Sun Sep 15, 2013 8:23 am

Hello all,

This may be of interest:

Ananda - Guardian of the Dhamma
http://www.tricycle.com/thus-have-i-hea ... a?page=0,0

With metta,
Chris
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---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---
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Re: Sutta Pitaka and Ananda

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Sun Sep 15, 2013 10:39 am

ccharles wrote:Did Ananda recite every single discourse given by Gotama Buddha (even if he wasnt present with him) at the first council?

Yes. One of the conditions of Venerable Ānanda taking on the duty of personal attendant was:
the Buddha was to repeat to him any doctrine taught in his absence.

He had a photographic memory, and could remember every discourse verbatim after hearing it just once.
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Re: Sutta Pitaka and Ananda

Postby Tom » Wed Sep 18, 2013 2:26 am

Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:Yes. One of the conditions of Venerable Ānanda taking on the duty of personal attendant was:
the Buddha was to repeat to him any doctrine taught in his absence.

From what source do you gather this from?
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Re: Sutta Pitaka and Ananda

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Wed Sep 18, 2013 4:35 am

I gave you a link from the Dictionary of Pali Proper Names, which will probably be using the Commentaries for it's source, though no reference for that is actually given.
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Re: Sutta Pitaka and Ananda

Postby ricebowl » Fri Sep 20, 2013 3:21 pm

Sekha wrote:so says the tradition.. I doubt anyone will ever know how things really happened.

I second that,

"Thus I had heard"

Thus I had known too..
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Re: Sutta Pitaka and Ananda

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Fri Sep 20, 2013 5:58 pm

For the skeptics — check out the biography of Sayādaw U Vicittasāra, who was the first to memorize the Tipitaka. There have now been a total of 13 monks who have passed this stringent examination.

The Venerable Ānanda probably knew most of the Vinaya by heart too, but the Abhidhamma is by far the longest section. For such monks, reciting the Suttanta Piṭaka would not be too onerous.
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Re: Sutta Pitaka and Ananda

Postby Tom » Tue Sep 24, 2013 5:12 am

Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:Yes. One of the conditions of Venerable Ānanda taking on the duty of personal attendant was:
the Buddha was to repeat to him any doctrine taught in his absence.

Is this stated in the Pali Canon?
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Re: Sutta Pitaka and Ananda

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Tue Sep 24, 2013 6:05 am

Who cares whether a source is in the Canon or in the Commentaries? Either way you have to use your intelligence to investigate the Dhamma for yourself and see whether it works or not.

We monks can only say, “This is what it says in the Suttas, Vinaya, or Abhidhamma,” or “This is what it says in the Commentaries or later works.”

Whether you believe it or not is up to you. One should not be credulous, but neither should one be cynical. Make a proper inquiry by meditating to develop morality, mindfulness, concentration, and insight.
Sekha wrote:so says the tradition.. I doubt anyone will ever know how things really happened.
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Re: Sutta Pitaka and Ananda

Postby ricebowl » Fri Sep 27, 2013 6:24 pm

AN 6.51
PTS: A iii 359
Ananda Sutta: Ven. Ananda
translated from the Pali by
Thanissaro Bhikkhu
© 2010

Then Ven. Ananda went to Ven. Sariputta and, on arrival, exchanged courteous greetings with him. After an exchange of friendly greetings & courtesies, he sat to one side. As he was sitting there he said to Ven. Sariputta, "Friend Sariputta, to what extent does a monk hear Dhamma that he has not heard, do the Dhammas he has heard not get confused, do the Dhammas he has touched with his awareness stay current, and does he understand what (previously) was not understood?"

"Friend Ananda is learned. Let the answer occur to him."

"In that case, friend Sariputta, listen to the Dhamma. Pay careful attention. I will speak."

"As you say, friend," Ven. Sariputta responded.

Ven. Ananda said, "There is the case, friend, where a monk masters the Dhamma: dialogues, narratives of mixed prose & verse, explanations, verses, spontaneous exclamations, quotations, birth stories, amazing events, question & answer sessions. He teaches the Dhamma in detail — as he has heard it, as he has remembered it — to others. He gets others to recite the Dhamma in detail — as they have heard it, as they have remembered it. He holds a group chanting of the Dhamma in detail — as he has heard it, as he has remembered it. He thinks about & evaluates the Dhamma as he has heard it, as he has remembered it; he contemplates it with his intellect. He enters the Rains in monasteries in which there are senior monks who are learned, who know the tradition, who are holders of the Dhamma, the Vinaya, & the Matika.[1] Having approached them periodically, he questions them & quizzes them: 'How it this, venerable sirs? What is the meaning of this?' They make open for him what wasn't open, make plain what wasn't plain, dispel doubt on various doubtful points.

"It's to this extent, friend Sariputta, that a monk hears Dhamma he has not heard, that the Dhammas he has heard do not get confused, that the Dhammas he has touched with his awareness stay current, and that he understands what (previously) was not understood."

"It's amazing, my friend. It's astounding, my friend, how well-said that was by friend Ananda. And we will remember friend Ananda as endowed with these six qualities: Friend Ananda has mastered the Dhamma: dialogues, narratives of mixed prose and verse, explanations, verses, spontaneous exclamations, quotations, birth stories, amazing events, question & answer sessions. Friend Ananda teaches the Dhamma in detail — as he has heard it, as he has remembered it — to others. Friend Ananda gets others to recite the Dhamma in detail — as they have heard it, as they have remembered it. Friend Ananda holds a group chanting of the Dhamma in detail — as he has heard it, as he has remembered it. Friend Ananda thinks about & evaluates the Dhamma as he has heard it, as he has remembered it; he contemplates it with his intellect. Friend Ananda enters the Rains in monasteries in which there are senior monks who are learned, who know the tradition, who are holders of the Dhamma, the Vinaya, & the Matika. Having approached them periodically, he questions them & quizzes them: 'How it this, venerable sirs? What is the meaning of this?' They make open for friend Ananda what wasn't open, make plain what wasn't plain, dispel doubt on various doubtful points."


Note
1.The Matika (Summaries) are tabular enumerations of doctrinal terms.

"Ananda Sutta: Ven. Ananda" (AN 6.51), translated from the Pali by Thanissaro Bhikkhu. Access to Insight, 4 July 2010, http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html . Retrieved on 20 September 2013.
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