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Belgian boy prevented from flying to India to become a monk - Dhamma Wheel

Belgian boy prevented from flying to India to become a monk

Casual discussion amongst spiritual friends.
Leon-nl
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Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2012 11:44 pm

Belgian boy prevented from flying to India to become a monk

Postby Leon-nl » Sun Sep 15, 2013 1:38 pm

Please send metta both for this brave young lad as well as for the people trying to prevent him from making his dreams come true - may they be guided by light, not by darkness.

http://www.deredactie.be/cm/vrtnieuws.e ... 30912_Giel

Can 15-year-old go to India to become a Buddhist monk?

A Flemish youngster is the centre of controversy after he announced his intention to leave for India to train to be a Buddhist monk. Police and officials from the local public prosecutors’ office have visited the lad's home to ensure he is not the subject of any coercion.

See also: http://www.deredactie.be/cm/vrtnieuws.e ... _follow_up

A Ghent court has ruled that a 15-year-old boy cannot move to Tibet. The boy from East Flanders wanted to travel to India to follow a special training to become a Buddhist monk. His intentions became the centre of media attention and also caught the interest of the police.
“Look on the world as empty, Mogharāja, being always mindful.
Having removed wrong view of self, in this way one will cross beyond Death.
When looking on the world in this way the king of Death does not see one.” - Sn 5.15

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Bhikkhu Pesala
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Re: Belgian boy prevented from flying to India to become a m

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Sun Sep 15, 2013 6:07 pm

He needs the permission of his parents to ordain, and that should be even more important for someone as young as 15. There are cults that would take advantage of a young person, and there may even be paedophiles in some monasteries who cannot wait to get their hands on young boys.

It is the duty of the parents and social services to do whatever they can to protect youngsters. The boy's mother is not Tibetan, and may have little knowledge about the Tibetan monastery where her son wants to go for training. She would do well to check it out thoroughly before allowing her son to go there. And what does his father think about this?

When he's eighteen or when he has finished his education, he might be wise enough to protect himself, but until then no one should let him go, unless they are confident that he will be in safe hands.
• • • • (Upasampadā: 24th June, 1979)

Jhana4
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Re: Belgian boy prevented from flying to India to become a m

Postby Jhana4 » Sun Sep 15, 2013 6:42 pm

I don't have problems with this. He is a minor. He can wait 3 years until he is 18. The training he wants takes 15 years.
In reading the scriptures, there are two kinds of mistakes:
One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.

Virgo
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Re: Belgian boy prevented from flying to India to become a m

Postby Virgo » Sun Sep 15, 2013 6:56 pm



Leon-nl
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Re: Belgian boy prevented from flying to India to become a m

Postby Leon-nl » Sun Sep 15, 2013 9:25 pm

The problem here, as I see it, is abuse of power by the state.
The boy lives with his mother. He has the permission of his mother to ordain. About the father nothing is said.
It was an uncle of the boy (a brother of the mother of the boy) who saw a documentary with the boy about his intention to ordain, and then this uncle hired a lawyer and contacted the police and the Child Welfare Service. There were disputes between the mother of the boy and his uncle in the past already, and it looks very much like the uncle deliberately wants to create problems for the mother and the boy. He says the boy was brainwashed by his mother and raised too isolated.

Therefore, earlier this week, a juvenile judge saw the boy and concluded there are no reasons to hold the boy in Belgium; he was allowed to go to India and ordain.

Last friday, 15 minutes before the mother and the boy would depart for the airport, 3 police cars and 6 police officers came to the house of the boy and escorted him to a court of justice where he heard from a judge that he was not allowed to leave the country. The prosecutor had lodged an appeal.

My opinion is, that if the parents agree, and that if the boy really wants it, and a juvenile judge made a judgement and says everything is ok, it is abuse of power by the state to forbid people to leave the country. It's something that happens in a dictatorial state or in a police state.

This is the monastery the boy wants to join:

http://www.jonangmonasteryshimla.com/
“Look on the world as empty, Mogharāja, being always mindful.
Having removed wrong view of self, in this way one will cross beyond Death.
When looking on the world in this way the king of Death does not see one.” - Sn 5.15

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Ben
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Re: Belgian boy prevented from flying to India to become a m

Postby Ben » Sun Sep 15, 2013 11:55 pm

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

dagon
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Re: Belgian boy prevented from flying to India to become a m

Postby dagon » Mon Sep 16, 2013 12:11 am


chownah
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Re: Belgian boy prevented from flying to India to become a m

Postby chownah » Mon Sep 16, 2013 2:48 am

I think they should make him wait until he has successfully established a way to fund his retirement. He really should do his part in funding the social necessities before nancing off to a life of leisure as a monk, don't you think.......and what with the cost of all the wars and the social welfare we are providing the banking industry right now we really should be sure that everyone does their part.
(These are not my views.)
chownah

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Bhikkhu Pesala
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Re: Belgian boy prevented from flying to India to become a m

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Mon Sep 16, 2013 5:13 am

• • • • (Upasampadā: 24th June, 1979)

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Aloka
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Re: Belgian boy prevented from flying to India to become a m

Postby Aloka » Mon Sep 16, 2013 6:40 am

It might be worthwhile looking at this video by the young Tibetan tulku Kalu Rinpoche speaking about the way he was abused in a Tibetan Buddhist monastery.



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Monkey Mind
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Location: Pacific Northwest, USA

Re: Belgian boy prevented from flying to India to become a m

Postby Monkey Mind » Mon Sep 16, 2013 7:52 am

"Life of leisure" describes no monk or nun I have ever met.

Although I appreciate the concerns about brainwashing and cults, I think it is worth comparing this to some other cultural precedents. If he was a talented prodigy, he could attend dance or music academy at his age. If he was unusually bright, he would be admitted to a college or university. Or attend a military academy or boarding school. Here is the USA, we have programs called Job Corps, where a youth his age can train for forestry or fire fighting. And there are many Christian ministry programs where he could begin his training to become a minister, at his age. I'm certain Europe has similar allowances for youth?
"As I am, so are others;
as others are, so am I."
Having thus identified self and others,
harm no one nor have them harmed.

Sutta Nipāta 3.710

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mirco
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Re: Belgian boy prevented from flying to India to become a m

Postby mirco » Mon Sep 16, 2013 8:01 am

"An important term for meditative absorption is samadhi. We often translate that as concentration, but that can suggest a certain stiffness. Perhaps unification is a better rendition, as samadhi means to bring together. Deep samadhi isn't at all stiff. It's a process of letting go of other things and coming to a unified experience." -

Leon-nl
Posts: 144
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2012 11:44 pm

Re: Belgian boy prevented from flying to India to become a m

Postby Leon-nl » Mon Sep 16, 2013 10:16 am

“Look on the world as empty, Mogharāja, being always mindful.
Having removed wrong view of self, in this way one will cross beyond Death.
When looking on the world in this way the king of Death does not see one.” - Sn 5.15

Leon-nl
Posts: 144
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2012 11:44 pm

Re: Belgian boy prevented from flying to India to become a m

Postby Leon-nl » Mon Sep 16, 2013 10:19 am

“Look on the world as empty, Mogharāja, being always mindful.
Having removed wrong view of self, in this way one will cross beyond Death.
When looking on the world in this way the king of Death does not see one.” - Sn 5.15

Leon-nl
Posts: 144
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2012 11:44 pm

Re: Belgian boy prevented from flying to India to become a m

Postby Leon-nl » Mon Sep 16, 2013 10:25 am

“Look on the world as empty, Mogharāja, being always mindful.
Having removed wrong view of self, in this way one will cross beyond Death.
When looking on the world in this way the king of Death does not see one.” - Sn 5.15

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Ben
Posts: 18442
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:49 am
Location: kanamaluka

Re: Belgian boy prevented from flying to India to become a m

Postby Ben » Mon Sep 16, 2013 11:19 am

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

Leon-nl
Posts: 144
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2012 11:44 pm

Re: Belgian boy prevented from flying to India to become a m

Postby Leon-nl » Mon Sep 16, 2013 12:12 pm

“Look on the world as empty, Mogharāja, being always mindful.
Having removed wrong view of self, in this way one will cross beyond Death.
When looking on the world in this way the king of Death does not see one.” - Sn 5.15

User avatar
Aloka
Posts: 5517
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2009 2:51 pm

Re: Belgian boy prevented from flying to India to become a m

Postby Aloka » Mon Sep 16, 2013 12:40 pm

Are you involved with Tibetan Buddhism yourself, Leon-ni ?

.

Leon-nl
Posts: 144
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2012 11:44 pm

Re: Belgian boy prevented from flying to India to become a m

Postby Leon-nl » Mon Sep 16, 2013 12:42 pm

“Look on the world as empty, Mogharāja, being always mindful.
Having removed wrong view of self, in this way one will cross beyond Death.
When looking on the world in this way the king of Death does not see one.” - Sn 5.15

User avatar
mirco
Posts: 448
Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2010 2:12 pm

Re: Belgian boy prevented from flying to India to become a m

Postby mirco » Mon Sep 16, 2013 7:20 pm

"An important term for meditative absorption is samadhi. We often translate that as concentration, but that can suggest a certain stiffness. Perhaps unification is a better rendition, as samadhi means to bring together. Deep samadhi isn't at all stiff. It's a process of letting go of other things and coming to a unified experience." -


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