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AN 3.38/3.39: Sukhamala Sutta — Refinement - Dhamma Wheel

AN 3.38/3.39: Sukhamala Sutta — Refinement

Each week we study and discuss a different sutta or Dhamma text

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AN 3.38/3.39: Sukhamala Sutta — Refinement

Postby mikenz66 » Wed Sep 25, 2013 7:21 pm


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Sam Vara
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Re: AN 3.38/3.39: Sukhamala Sutta — Refinement

Postby Sam Vara » Wed Sep 25, 2013 7:34 pm


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Re: AN 3.38/3.39: Sukhamala Sutta — Refinement

Postby mikenz66 » Wed Sep 25, 2013 7:41 pm


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Sam Vara
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Re: AN 3.38/3.39: Sukhamala Sutta — Refinement

Postby Sam Vara » Wed Sep 25, 2013 8:44 pm

Yes, both seem to deal with what is appropriate or socially expected from one in the Bodhisatta's position. Given that witnessing the four signs was supposedly the impetus for his search for the deathless, I would have thought that any feelings upon seeing them would have overshadowed the proprieties.

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Re: AN 3.38/3.39: Sukhamala Sutta — Refinement

Postby daverupa » Wed Sep 25, 2013 8:55 pm

It's as though someone would denigrate another for being old, while themselves being old. It's hypocritical, or at best immoderate, behavior, I think, and for this reason not proper.

The intoxication of youth, in terms of aging, is that inability to recognize oneself as subject to it, and so ones hypocrisy (...there must be a better term than this...) isn't readily available to awareness.
Last edited by daverupa on Wed Sep 25, 2013 9:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: AN 3.38/3.39: Sukhamala Sutta — Refinement

Postby mikenz66 » Wed Sep 25, 2013 8:58 pm


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Re: AN 3.38/3.39: Sukhamala Sutta — Refinement

Postby Sam Vara » Wed Sep 25, 2013 9:33 pm

Yes, I agree that the meaning is probably that - it is improper, or illogical, or hypocritical, to feel disgust towards people when you yourself are headed in that direction. But this recognition of impropriety does not seem in itself to be sufficient reason for what follows: the dropping away of the intoxication with youth (etc). One could remain intoxicated while recognising such impropriety. "I shouldn't denigrate people who are old/sick/subject to death, because they are intoxicated with youth/health/life just like I am".

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Re: AN 3.38/3.39: Sukhamala Sutta — Refinement

Postby mikenz66 » Thu Sep 26, 2013 8:57 am


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Re: AN 3.38/3.39: Sukhamala Sutta — Refinement

Postby Samma » Sun Sep 29, 2013 6:21 pm

I like this one since it deals with some obstacles to renunciation that people are concerned with along with the eight worldly dhammas of wealth/loss of wealth, status/loss of status, praise/criticism, pleasure/pain.
Not sure intoxication is the best word though... wrapped up in, satisfied, proud...
yobbanamada pride of youth
arogyamada pride of health
jivitmada pride of life

Besides that the more interesting parts of this are also the implied results of being beyond illness, death, and what exactly that means?


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