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Tensions within Modern Buddhism, Real or Illusory? - Page 2 - Dhamma Wheel

Tensions within Modern Buddhism, Real or Illusory?

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
Dharmajim
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Re: Tensions within Modern Buddhism, Real or Illusory?

Postby Dharmajim » Sat Jan 17, 2009 7:52 pm


Element

Re: Tensions within Modern Buddhism, Real or Illusory?

Postby Element » Sat Jan 17, 2009 8:19 pm

I am curious. What are the issues with Soto Zen?

When I google Soto Zen, I come up with Dogen. I was under the impression Dogen was a great teacher.

What are the specific issues the Tibetans have with Soto Zen?

I have noticed on other sites, so-called Zen practitioners appear to repudiate all 'form', clinging to a doctrine of nothingness.

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tiltbillings
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Re: Tensions within Modern Buddhism, Real or Illusory?

Postby tiltbillings » Sat Jan 17, 2009 9:36 pm


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jcsuperstar
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Re: Tensions within Modern Buddhism, Real or Illusory?

Postby jcsuperstar » Sat Jan 17, 2009 10:56 pm

สัพเพ สัตตา สุขีตา โหนตุ

the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat

Element

Re: Tensions within Modern Buddhism, Real or Illusory?

Postby Element » Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:05 pm

Last edited by Element on Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Karma Dondrup Tashi
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Re: Tensions within Modern Buddhism, Real or Illusory?

Postby Karma Dondrup Tashi » Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:15 pm


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Cittasanto
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Re: Tensions within Modern Buddhism, Real or Illusory?

Postby Cittasanto » Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:28 pm



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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retrofuturist
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Re: Tensions within Modern Buddhism, Real or Illusory?

Postby retrofuturist » Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:46 pm

Greetings Manapa,

Yes, that is a good point, yet intra-tradition tensions of that kind are unavoidable, and probably to some extent productive. I do wonder though in all sincerity whether there is anything to be gained by one tradition critiquing another. Can such critiquing ever be fully detached from proselytization? Does it improve anyone's practice and help them learn more about their own tradition, or does it simply lead to agitation and fertile soil for Wrong Speech? I tend to get along well with people from other Buddhist traditions, but we usually don't go about critiquing each other's tradition... merely explain and ask questions about what life is like on our own sides of the fence, so that we can understand each other better.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Cittasanto
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Re: Tensions within Modern Buddhism, Real or Illusory?

Postby Cittasanto » Sun Jan 18, 2009 12:31 am



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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tiltbillings
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Re: Tensions within Modern Buddhism, Real or Illusory?

Postby tiltbillings » Sun Jan 18, 2009 12:39 am

Anders Honore,

[EDIT: Discussion on E-Sangha removed - Retro.]

We each belong to our little group, often thinking it is better than those other little groups, but what do we do with those thoughts? The problem is that the Mahayana has triumphalism and supersessionism built into its structure, which feeds right into the baser feelings. Always a choice.

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clw_uk
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Re: Tensions within Modern Buddhism, Real or Illusory?

Postby clw_uk » Sun Jan 18, 2009 12:45 am

Isnt everyone entertaining wrong view when they claim

"I am/we are better, I am/we are equal and I am/we are worse than"
Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken

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retrofuturist
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Re: Tensions within Modern Buddhism, Real or Illusory?

Postby retrofuturist » Sun Jan 18, 2009 12:48 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

Element

Re: Tensions within Modern Buddhism, Real or Illusory?

Postby Element » Sun Jan 18, 2009 12:57 am


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christopher:::
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Re: Tensions within Modern Buddhism, Real or Illusory?

Postby christopher::: » Sun Jan 18, 2009 1:17 am

Last edited by christopher::: on Sun Jan 18, 2009 1:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
"As Buddhists, we should aim to develop relationships that are not predominated by grasping and clinging. Our relationships should be characterised by the brahmaviharas of metta (loving kindness), mudita (sympathetic joy), karuna (compassion), and upekkha (equanimity)."
~post by Ben, Jul 02, 2009

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tiltbillings
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Re: Tensions within Modern Buddhism, Real or Illusory?

Postby tiltbillings » Sun Jan 18, 2009 1:18 am


Element

Re: Tensions within Modern Buddhism, Real or Illusory?

Postby Element » Sun Jan 18, 2009 1:26 am


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retrofuturist
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Re: Tensions within Modern Buddhism, Real or Illusory?

Postby retrofuturist » Sun Jan 18, 2009 1:42 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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christopher:::
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Re: Tensions within Modern Buddhism, Real or Illusory?

Postby christopher::: » Sun Jan 18, 2009 1:49 am

"As Buddhists, we should aim to develop relationships that are not predominated by grasping and clinging. Our relationships should be characterised by the brahmaviharas of metta (loving kindness), mudita (sympathetic joy), karuna (compassion), and upekkha (equanimity)."
~post by Ben, Jul 02, 2009

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kc2dpt
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Re: Tensions within Modern Buddhism, Real or Illusory?

Postby kc2dpt » Sun Jan 18, 2009 2:42 am

- Peter


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Dhammanando
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Re: Tensions within Modern Buddhism, Real or Illusory?

Postby Dhammanando » Sun Jan 18, 2009 3:30 am



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