The status of women, according to the Buddha?

[Individual]

Most of you probably already know the fact that the Buddha said women can't be Buddhas, was hesitant about letting women in the Sangha, and said that doing so would make it become more corrupt more quickly.

In the Sakkapanha sutta (DN 21), it also seems as if birth as a woman is considered inferior to birth as a man, since a girl named Gopika is said to have rejected the status of being a woman and resolved on being reborn a man, and was then rewarded by being born as a male deva.

So, what exactly is the status of women? Are they karmically inferior to men, the same way that a human is inferior to a deva, or an animal is inferior to a human?

[David N. Snyder]

So, what exactly is the status of women? Are they karmically inferior to men, the same way that a human is inferior to a deva, or an animal is inferior to a human?

This has been discussed in many threads already. One here going right now:

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=1967

Women have full access to liberation and hundreds, perhaps thousands were Arahants during the time of Buddha. They are not inferior to males. And devas are not necessarily superior to humans, male or female.

[Fede]

*yawn*.....

[Individual]

So, what exactly is the status of women? Are they karmically inferior to men, the same way that a human is inferior to a deva, or an animal is inferior to a human?

This has been discussed in many threads already. One here going right now:

http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=1967

Women have full access to liberation and hundreds, perhaps thousands were Arahants during the time of Buddha. They are not inferior to males. And devas are not necessarily superior to humans, male or female.

Why would Gopika be resolved on being reborn a man?

[David N. Snyder]

Why would Gopika be resolved on being reborn a man?

Do you have a copy of the relevant quotes from DN? I don't have my copy with me right now.

But even if she did resolve that, it obviously is not necessarily a "correct" thing to do as she did not attain liberation. Rebirth as a deva is still rebirth. I suppose a man desiring to be a woman, might one day get his wish too, not necessarily being good or bad, just no liberation.

Being a deva is not always better than human and in many cases it is not; as the human realm is considered the best mix of pleasure and pain, regardless if you are male or female.

[cooran]

Hello Individual,

As a Woman .......

Anyone who gets upset about this hasn't quite understood the basics of Dhamma.

Each of us is neither Male nor Female. We may have a particular form in this birth, but have had uncountable other forms (most non-human) in uncountable other rebirths.

Our gender and species is due to our kamma/vipaka. And let's leave Who It Is Who Is Reborn out of it in this thread please.

In any society, human or otherwise, one gender is the (ostensibly and overtly) more powerful, does the ruling, the impregnating and the fighting.

In the human realm (as in the animal realm), males are usually bigger and stronger and more prone to exploration, fighting, and have privileges like education - don't become pregnant with the need to concentrate on child rearing.

Nothing special about the fact that women cannot be a Sammasambuddha in the lifetime she is in female form. None of the men can either - not while the Teachings are still available in the world. But women can become Fullly Enlightened Arahants - just as men presently can. Any being who is in a female form right now has as much chance of being a Sammasambuddha as any man .... about fifty hundred thousand million trillion billion to one (never was much good at maths ).

And, dear Dhamma Brothers, please don't assume you have ever been a male before this life - or that you ever will again.

karuna,
Chris

[David N. Snyder]

And, dear Dhamma Brothers, please don't assume you have ever been a male before this life - or that you ever will again.

Especially the misogynistic ones.

[Fede]

Thanks, Chris, that's a cool post.
Ok, we done now....?

I have an irresistible urge to break wind and thrust my hands in my pockets, looking bored.


Can't think why......

[Ben]

Hi Fede

I have an irresistible urge to break wind and thrust my hands in my pockets, looking bored.


Can't think why......

I thought the answer to that question was obvious...
Its because you're British!
Cheers

Ben

[appicchato]

...Its because you're British!

Hunh-uh...Italian...(I think)

[Ben]

My pardon!
I assumed Fede is British because she lives in England!
Oh well, my mistake!
Metta

Ben

[Sanghamitta]

Thanks for that Chris.

[Sanghamitta]

Hi Fede

I have an irresistible urge to break wind and thrust my hands in my pockets, looking bored.


Can't think why......

I thought the answer to that question was obvious...
Its because you're British!
Cheers

/quote]

Hi Ben I'm British, so I will carry that one for Fede if she likes. Except of course that I never, ever , break wind. I merely glow a little.



Valerie.

[Fede]

The British retain their wind.
hence, the stiff upper lip.

I am Half English and half Italian, but my passport states I'm British.
I was under the impression - until I was at least 15 - that I had in fact been born in Italy.

I mentioned this to my mother once, who laughed and said 'Noooo - you were born in Bromley!" Then she quietly added -
"But you were made in Italy....."

I have 'Fatta in Piemonte' stamped across my butt.....

And I hereby claim the award for the best "Waaaaaaaay off-topic post" in the whole forum.
I would like it presented to me by Beliefnet,

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=1879

and I'd like Peter

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1993

to give it to me if this thread gets moved to the free-for-all forum.

I thank you.

[Peter]

I accept that honor.

[Annapurna]

The British retain their wind.
hence, the stiff upper lip.