Ananda and Savikalpa Samadhi

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Ananda and Savikalpa Samadhi

Postby teknix » Sun Oct 06, 2013 7:51 am

When I experience ananda I feel waves of bliss penetrating my every cell and I get these goose bumps on my body . Is this a part of what the Buddhist call Savikalpa Samadhi?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIr7btx5n44
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Re: Ananda and Savikalpa Samadhi

Postby tiltbillings » Sun Oct 06, 2013 7:58 am

teknix wrote: Savikalpa Samadhi?
Probably better discussed on a Hindu forum, since this is really a Hindu concept.
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Re: Ananda and Savikalpa Samadhi

Postby teknix » Sun Oct 06, 2013 8:04 am

I thought Samadhi was common to Buddhism as well?
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Re: Ananda and Savikalpa Samadhi

Postby teknix » Sun Oct 06, 2013 8:06 am

I believe the Visuddhimagga refers to it as concentration.
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Re: Ananda and Savikalpa Samadhi

Postby chownah » Sun Oct 06, 2013 10:20 am

I looked at savikhalpa samadhi on line and it seems that it has to do with the soul. Here in Theravadaville we ain't got no soul!.....but thanks to the ecumenical nature of James Brown, we do feel good!

All seriousness aside, if you could find a link showing savikhalpa samadhi in some Theravada scripture it would help in developing a discussion....but I don't think you will find it....but I hope you do find it!
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Re: Ananda and Savikalpa Samadhi

Postby teknix » Sun Oct 06, 2013 12:20 pm

Lol, thanks. I like your humor!

Of course you don't have a soul, what would there be to be having a soul.

I'm referring to a particular experience in which energy courses through the body, from the crown, and comes in waves at first and steady with practice.

Is there any descriptions of such a phenomena in Theravada texts?
Last edited by teknix on Sun Oct 06, 2013 12:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ananda and Savikalpa Samadhi

Postby Modus.Ponens » Sun Oct 06, 2013 12:22 pm

Hello teknix

I tried looking into what savikalpa samadhi is (and nirvikalpa samadhi too), but I can't see where is the correspondence between the hindu names for the different levels of samadhi and the buddhist ones. We are all humans so we all experience the same states of samadhi. We just interpret them in a different way. Since you know the hindu perspective better, listen to this teaching about the 8 levels of concentration, as understood by Theravada. Then you can form your opinion.



If you have doubts about terminology, or any other thing, drop by. :)

Be well :)
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Re: Ananda and Savikalpa Samadhi

Postby teknix » Sun Oct 06, 2013 12:24 pm

Thank you for the info Modus.Ponens, allow me to be your Modus.Tollens. :tongue:

I added a description in the above post as to what I am talking about.
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Re: Ananda and Savikalpa Samadhi

Postby teknix » Sun Oct 06, 2013 12:31 pm

Ok, let me see if I am understanding this correctly, the first Jhana would be bliss, and sinking that energy into the heart, to love (metta) would be the second jhana, then letting go of that sensation would bring you to the third jhana? I think the third jhana would be more akin to inner-fire? I say that because the fire was hidden beneath the heart from my experience. It seems like the descriptions of jhana are describing the energy body, from top down. The edge of the void being on the way to the lower dan tien, or the navel chakra.

I am actually most familiar with Taoist internal alchemy such as MCO and Kundalini. I use Buddhism for teachings on anatta and metta, and I love reading the koans.
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Re: Ananda and Savikalpa Samadhi

Postby Virgo » Sun Oct 06, 2013 1:00 pm

teknix wrote:Ok, let me see if I am understanding this correctly, the first Jhana would be bliss, and sinking that energy into the heart, to love (metta) would be the second jhana, then letting go of that sensation would bring you to the third jhana? I think the third jhana would be more akin to inner-fire?

According to this teacher. The actual texts say things that are far different. Imo, you are better off looking at textual sources.
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Re: Ananda and Savikalpa Samadhi

Postby Modus.Ponens » Sun Oct 06, 2013 1:49 pm

teknix wrote:Ok, let me see if I am understanding this correctly, the first Jhana would be bliss, and sinking that energy into the heart, to love (metta) would be the second jhana, then letting go of that sensation would bring you to the third jhana? I think the third jhana would be more akin to inner-fire? I say that because the fire was hidden beneath the heart from my experience. It seems like the descriptions of jhana are describing the energy body, from top down. The edge of the void being on the way to the lower dan tien, or the navel chakra.

I am actually most familiar with Taoist internal alchemy such as MCO and Kundalini. I use Buddhism for teachings on anatta and metta, and I love reading the koans.


Hmm, although Venerable Ayya Khema is teaching standard buddhist jhana, Virgo's sugestion will be helpful here. Let's look at how the first four levels of concentration are described, in short, in the sriptures:

1st jhana: The Blessed One said: "Now what, monks, is five-factored noble right concentration? There is the case where a monk — quite withdrawn from sensuality, withdrawn from unskillful qualities — enters and remains in the first jhana: rapture and pleasure born from withdrawal, accompanied by directed thought and evaluation. He permeates and pervades, suffuses and fills this very body with the rapture and pleasure born from withdrawal. There is nothing of his entire body unpervaded by rapture and pleasure born from withdrawal.

2nd jhana: (...) Furthermore, with the stilling of directed thoughts & evaluations, he enters and remains in the second jhana: rapture and pleasure born of composure, unification of awareness free from directed thought and evaluation — internal assurance. He permeates and pervades, suffuses and fills this very body with the rapture and pleasure born of composure. There is nothing of his entire body unpervaded by rapture and pleasure born of composure.


3rd jhana: (...) And furthermore, with the fading of rapture, he remains equanimous, mindful, & alert, and senses pleasure with the body. He enters & remains in the third jhana, of which the Noble Ones declare, 'Equanimous & mindful, he has a pleasant abiding.' He permeates and pervades, suffuses and fills this very body with the pleasure divested of rapture, so that there is nothing of his entire body unpervaded with pleasure divested of rapture

4th jhana: (...) And furthermore, with the abandoning of pleasure and stress — as with the earlier disappearance of elation and distress — he enters and remains in the fourth jhana: purity of equanimity and mindfulness, neither-pleasure-nor-pain. He sits, permeating the body with a pure, bright awareness, so that there is nothing of his entire body unpervaded by pure, bright awareness.

This is the standard description, which Ayya Khema follows. I believe the metta she was describing there is a feeling that arises naturaly with these states. But metta is not the goal of jhana, nor the focus of the attention. Things seem to be more nuanced in actual practice, so that's what she's refering to.

By the way, it seems like your description matches the first jhana.

Be well.
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Re: Ananda and Savikalpa Samadhi

Postby teknix » Sun Oct 06, 2013 1:50 pm

I tried looking into what savikalpa samadhi is (and nirvikalpa samadhi too), but I can't see where is the correspondence between the hindu names for the different levels of samadhi and the buddhist ones. We are all humans so we all experience the same states of samadhi. We just interpret them in a different way. Since you know the hindu perspective better, listen to this teaching about the 8 levels of concentration, as understood by Theravada. Then you can form your opinion.


I believe the teacher called it "excess concentration".

Sorry for the confusion, I was looking up jhanas on websites when I made the previous response. It was this one I was looking at:

http://www.katinkahesselink.net/tibet/jhana-2.html

My apologies.
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Re: Ananda and Savikalpa Samadhi

Postby teknix » Sun Oct 06, 2013 1:56 pm

There seems to be only a very subtle difference between the 1st 2nd and 3rd jhana's.

What I'm referring to and documented requires an absence of thought in my experience. It seems that it is directed by will rather than thought or thinking.

Kinda like just going, or doing, but not thinking about the going or doing.

She also says what we want doesn't work in meditation, yet in this case it does. (To turn it off and on)

So is love and loving kindness also a piti?

Haha, it does seem like she is taking us through the chakra's from the top down .

Thanks for the video and the info guys, I'll talk to you more in the future. I find it intriguing how similar practices are and how obvious it is becoming with our technologies.

Farewell for now!
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