Most of you probably already know the fact that the Buddha said women can't be Buddhas, was hesitant about letting women in the Sangha, and said that doing so would make it become more corrupt more quickly.
In the Sakkapanha sutta (DN 21), it also seems as if birth as a woman is considered inferior to birth as a man, since a girl named Gopika is said to have rejected the status of being a woman and resolved on being reborn a man, and was then rewarded by being born as a male deva.
So, what exactly is the status of women? Are they karmically inferior to men, the same way that a human is inferior to a deva, or an animal is inferior to a human?
The status of women, according to the Buddha?
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Re: The status of women, according to the Buddha?
This has been discussed in many threads already. One here going right now:Individual wrote: So, what exactly is the status of women? Are they karmically inferior to men, the same way that a human is inferior to a deva, or an animal is inferior to a human?
http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=1967" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Women have full access to liberation and hundreds, perhaps thousands were Arahants during the time of Buddha. They are not inferior to males. And devas are not necessarily superior to humans, male or female.
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Re: The status of women, according to the Buddha?
*yawn*.....
"Samsara: The human condition's heartbreaking inability to sustain contentment." Elizabeth Gilbert, 'Eat, Pray, Love'.
Simplify: 17 into 1 WILL go: Mindfulness!
Quieta movere magna merces videbatur. (Sallust, c.86-c.35 BC)
Translation: Just to stir things up seemed a good reward in itself.
I am sooooo happy - How on earth could I be otherwise?!
http://www.armchairadvice.co.uk/relationships/forum/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Simplify: 17 into 1 WILL go: Mindfulness!
Quieta movere magna merces videbatur. (Sallust, c.86-c.35 BC)
Translation: Just to stir things up seemed a good reward in itself.
I am sooooo happy - How on earth could I be otherwise?!
http://www.armchairadvice.co.uk/relationships/forum/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: The status of women, according to the Buddha?
Why would Gopika be resolved on being reborn a man?TheDhamma wrote:This has been discussed in many threads already. One here going right now:Individual wrote: So, what exactly is the status of women? Are they karmically inferior to men, the same way that a human is inferior to a deva, or an animal is inferior to a human?
http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=1967" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Women have full access to liberation and hundreds, perhaps thousands were Arahants during the time of Buddha. They are not inferior to males. And devas are not necessarily superior to humans, male or female.
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Re: The status of women, according to the Buddha?
Do you have a copy of the relevant quotes from DN? I don't have my copy with me right now.Individual wrote: Why would Gopika be resolved on being reborn a man?
But even if she did resolve that, it obviously is not necessarily a "correct" thing to do as she did not attain liberation. Rebirth as a deva is still rebirth. I suppose a man desiring to be a woman, might one day get his wish too, not necessarily being good or bad, just no liberation.
Being a deva is not always better than human and in many cases it is not; as the human realm is considered the best mix of pleasure and pain, regardless if you are male or female.
Re: The status of women, according to the Buddha?
Hello Individual,
As a Woman .......
Anyone who gets upset about this hasn't quite understood the basics of Dhamma.
Each of us is neither Male nor Female. We may have a particular form in this birth, but have had uncountable other forms (most non-human) in uncountable other rebirths.
Our gender and species is due to our kamma/vipaka. And let's leave Who It Is Who Is Reborn out of it in this thread please.
In any society, human or otherwise, one gender is the (ostensibly and overtly) more powerful, does the ruling, the impregnating and the fighting.
In the human realm (as in the animal realm), males are usually bigger and stronger and more prone to exploration, fighting, and have privileges like education - don't become pregnant with the need to concentrate on child rearing.
Nothing special about the fact that women cannot be a Sammasambuddha in the lifetime she is in female form. None of the men can either - not while the Teachings are still available in the world. But women can become Fullly Enlightened Arahants - just as men presently can. Any being who is in a female form right now has as much chance of being a Sammasambuddha as any man .... about fifty hundred thousand million trillion billion to one (never was much good at maths ).
And, dear Dhamma Brothers, please don't assume you have ever been a male before this life - or that you ever will again.
karuna,
Chris
As a Woman .......
Anyone who gets upset about this hasn't quite understood the basics of Dhamma.
Each of us is neither Male nor Female. We may have a particular form in this birth, but have had uncountable other forms (most non-human) in uncountable other rebirths.
Our gender and species is due to our kamma/vipaka. And let's leave Who It Is Who Is Reborn out of it in this thread please.
In any society, human or otherwise, one gender is the (ostensibly and overtly) more powerful, does the ruling, the impregnating and the fighting.
In the human realm (as in the animal realm), males are usually bigger and stronger and more prone to exploration, fighting, and have privileges like education - don't become pregnant with the need to concentrate on child rearing.
Nothing special about the fact that women cannot be a Sammasambuddha in the lifetime she is in female form. None of the men can either - not while the Teachings are still available in the world. But women can become Fullly Enlightened Arahants - just as men presently can. Any being who is in a female form right now has as much chance of being a Sammasambuddha as any man .... about fifty hundred thousand million trillion billion to one (never was much good at maths ).
And, dear Dhamma Brothers, please don't assume you have ever been a male before this life - or that you ever will again.
karuna,
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---
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Re: The status of women, according to the Buddha?
Chris wrote: And, dear Dhamma Brothers, please don't assume you have ever been a male before this life - or that you ever will again.
Especially the misogynistic ones.
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Re: The status of women, according to the Buddha?
Thanks, Chris, that's a cool post.
Ok, we done now....?
I have an irresistible urge to break wind and thrust my hands in my pockets, looking bored.
Can't think why......
Ok, we done now....?
I have an irresistible urge to break wind and thrust my hands in my pockets, looking bored.
Can't think why......
"Samsara: The human condition's heartbreaking inability to sustain contentment." Elizabeth Gilbert, 'Eat, Pray, Love'.
Simplify: 17 into 1 WILL go: Mindfulness!
Quieta movere magna merces videbatur. (Sallust, c.86-c.35 BC)
Translation: Just to stir things up seemed a good reward in itself.
I am sooooo happy - How on earth could I be otherwise?!
http://www.armchairadvice.co.uk/relationships/forum/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Simplify: 17 into 1 WILL go: Mindfulness!
Quieta movere magna merces videbatur. (Sallust, c.86-c.35 BC)
Translation: Just to stir things up seemed a good reward in itself.
I am sooooo happy - How on earth could I be otherwise?!
http://www.armchairadvice.co.uk/relationships/forum/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Re: The status of women, according to the Buddha?
Hi Fede
Its because you're British!
Cheers
Ben
I thought the answer to that question was obvious...Fede wrote:I have an irresistible urge to break wind and thrust my hands in my pockets, looking bored.
Can't think why......
Its because you're British!
Cheers
Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725
Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global Relief • UNHCR
e: [email protected]..
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725
Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global Relief • UNHCR
e: [email protected]..
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Re: The status of women, according to the Buddha?
Hunh-uh...Italian...(I think)Ben wrote:...Its because you're British!
Re: The status of women, according to the Buddha?
My pardon!
I assumed Fede is British because she lives in England!
Oh well, my mistake!
Metta
Ben
I assumed Fede is British because she lives in England!
Oh well, my mistake!
Metta
Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725
Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global Relief • UNHCR
e: [email protected]..
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725
Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global Relief • UNHCR
e: [email protected]..
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Re: The status of women, according to the Buddha?
Thanks for that Chris.
The going for refuge is the door of entrance to the teachings of the Buddha.
Bhikku Bodhi.
Bhikku Bodhi.
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Re: The status of women, according to the Buddha?
I thought the answer to that question was obvious...Ben wrote:Hi FedeFede wrote:I have an irresistible urge to break wind and thrust my hands in my pockets, looking bored.
Can't think why......
Its because you're British!
Cheers
/quote]
Hi Ben I'm British, so I will carry that one for Fede if she likes. Except of course that I never, ever , break wind. I merely glow a little.
Valerie.
The going for refuge is the door of entrance to the teachings of the Buddha.
Bhikku Bodhi.
Bhikku Bodhi.
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Re: The status of women, according to the Buddha?
The British retain their wind.
hence, the stiff upper lip.
I am Half English and half Italian, but my passport states I'm British.
I was under the impression - until I was at least 15 - that I had in fact been born in Italy.
I mentioned this to my mother once, who laughed and said 'Noooo - you were born in Bromley!" Then she quietly added -
"But you were made in Italy....."
I have 'Fatta in Piemonte' stamped across my butt.....
And I hereby claim the award for the best "Waaaaaaaay off-topic post" in the whole forum.
I would like it presented to me by Beliefnet,
http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=1879" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
and I'd like Peter
http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1993" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
to give it to me if this thread gets moved to the free-for-all forum.
I thank you.
hence, the stiff upper lip.
I am Half English and half Italian, but my passport states I'm British.
I was under the impression - until I was at least 15 - that I had in fact been born in Italy.
I mentioned this to my mother once, who laughed and said 'Noooo - you were born in Bromley!" Then she quietly added -
"But you were made in Italy....."
I have 'Fatta in Piemonte' stamped across my butt.....
And I hereby claim the award for the best "Waaaaaaaay off-topic post" in the whole forum.
I would like it presented to me by Beliefnet,
http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=1879" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
and I'd like Peter
http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1993" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
to give it to me if this thread gets moved to the free-for-all forum.
I thank you.
Last edited by Fede on Thu Aug 06, 2009 2:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Samsara: The human condition's heartbreaking inability to sustain contentment." Elizabeth Gilbert, 'Eat, Pray, Love'.
Simplify: 17 into 1 WILL go: Mindfulness!
Quieta movere magna merces videbatur. (Sallust, c.86-c.35 BC)
Translation: Just to stir things up seemed a good reward in itself.
I am sooooo happy - How on earth could I be otherwise?!
http://www.armchairadvice.co.uk/relationships/forum/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Simplify: 17 into 1 WILL go: Mindfulness!
Quieta movere magna merces videbatur. (Sallust, c.86-c.35 BC)
Translation: Just to stir things up seemed a good reward in itself.
I am sooooo happy - How on earth could I be otherwise?!
http://www.armchairadvice.co.uk/relationships/forum/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Re: The status of women, according to the Buddha?
I accept that honor.
- Peter
Be heedful and you will accomplish your goal.
Be heedful and you will accomplish your goal.